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  1. svt2026 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2008 10:17am


     Style: hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Joint locks on compliant opponent

    One thing that bothers me about people critisizint TMA on this forum is when they talk about vids from youtube of people practicing jointlocks and suck on a complient oponent.

    Well how in the hell are you suposed to learn a technique properly if you dont do it when someone lets you. Practice and live sparing session are two different things so stop ragging on people for doing that. I'm surre you cant learn **** even in BJJ if someone doesnt let you do it first.
  2. kultist is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2008 10:26am


     Style: BJJ, JJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You'll notice we don't rag on at BJJ'ers who do videos of compliant joint locks. This is because the bjj'ers in question also post videos of them doing those moves in sparring against resisting opponents, and people who see these videos test the moves out when they spar at their clubs and find that they work.
    When a BJJ club do a demo, they will show some flashy moves and some sparring where those moves are used. When TMAers do demos, it tends to be entirely compliant moves and the sparring looks like kickboxing, with very few of these flashy standing joint locks pulled off. You'll notice that if a club does a demo of sparring and someone pulls a good standing lock on someone else, we don't tend to criticise as much.

    What i'm really trying to say is LURK MOAR POAST LESS
  3. Liffguard is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2008 10:27am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, that's true. The point is that in BJJ the "compliant" part of it only takes up a small percentage of the actual training. I.e. you try it a few times without resistance to get the gist of the movement. Then methodically increase the resistance step-by-step until you can successfully apply the move in sparring. It's the whole "three I's" deal.

    The criticsm of most TMAs comes from the fact that compliant drills seem to make up a majority of the training rather than just the introductory stage.

    EDIT: Replying to OP here
    Dedicated to legs and the disrespecting thereof.
  4. svt2026 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2008 10:28am


     Style: hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Isn't BJJ a TMA
  5. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2008 10:31am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We realize that techniques must be drilled before one can achieve proficiency when using them against a resisting opponent. That's not what we are poking fun at. It's the horrible technique people use in these videos that cause us fits. Techniques that would NOT work against even a semi-skilled opponent in a hard sparring setting.

    There have been BJJ videos guilty of this and we made fun of them as well.

    The bad techniques demonstrated in some of these videos could result in injury, for them or their opponent, if people tried to use them in a live setting.
  6. kultist is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2008 10:34am


     Style: BJJ, JJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by svt2026
    Isn't BJJ a TMA
    It's more recent than judo, boxing and wrestling, and since of them only judo is considered a TMA; and even then it is considered a far better TMA than all the others, much like thai boxing (not really even in the same league as kratty, kung fu, or any other such ****.) To be honest, when we say TMA in a perogative way we're talking about traditional training methods.
    Oh, and as JNP said what really peeves most people on this forum are techniques that wouldn't work, such as hapkido locks where the person getting locked would be able to easily stop it with strength or just move out of it or ke?po techniques where the ke?poist throws two billion attacks while the opponent just stands there. Or for that matter catch wrestling techniques that just make you go wtf??? Or judo techniques that involve the turtle as a viable defense for anything. Or muay thai double uppercuts. The only reason we tend to pick on TMAs more (excepting judo and thaiboxing) is that they have more massively ridiculous stuff that doesn't get weeded out by sparring.
    Last edited by kultist; 2/14/2008 10:42am at .
  7. Jadonblade is offline
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    Hoo Ha!

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2008 10:35am

    supporting member
     Style: San Da, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by svt2026
    Isn't BJJ a TMA
    Depends on your criteria for TMA, is it age/history/lineage?, old fashioned idea's?, etiquette?

    kultist -

    Would you regard San da as part of the kung fu TMA?
  8. svt2026 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2008 10:36am


     Style: hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my opinion even techniques that wouldn't work on a non complient person have value to them the constant repetion and the feel how a person reacts to the mechanics is good proactice so when you do actual practice you can come up with things on the spot and not just stick to what you know. Thats why people like BJ Penn and Gracie were good cause they can imprivise on the spot from learning as much as they could. I know that most the crap i learned wouldn't work either but it show you what hurts and what doesn't what works and what doesn't.
  9. mrblackmagic is offline
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    My pleasure.

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2008 10:38am

    Join us... or die
     Style: yang taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What???
    Last edited by mrblackmagic; 2/14/2008 10:41am at .
    Sumus extra manum tuam.
  10. kultist is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2008 10:45am


     Style: BJJ, JJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by svt2026
    In my opinion even techniques that wouldn't work on a non complient person have value to them the constant repetion and the feel how a person reacts to the mechanics is good proactice so when you do actual practice you can come up with things on the spot and not just stick to what you know. Thats why people like BJ Penn and Gracie were good cause they can imprivise on the spot from learning as much as they could. I know that most the crap i learned wouldn't work either but it show you what hurts and what doesn't what works and what doesn't.
    If you're out camping with a woodsman, why would you want him to show you 1000 ways that you can't light a fire or make lighting a fire tricky as hell when you can get him to show you three ways that you can make a fire with relative ease?
    For that matter, if two fighters spend the same amount of time training and both do sparring at their separate clubs, and one learns 25 techniques that do work and the other learns 20 techniques that don't work and 5 that do, why would the second one be better?
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