The Official KMA Forum ATA Megathread

**Doctor X** · Posted On: 8/21/2006 7:25am

Who does one fault more, the teacher that abuses or the students who allow and reinforce it?

That is a bit of a rhetorical question since such abuse is all too common in cultish groups.

--J.D.

**Lv1Sierpinski** · Posted On: 8/21/2006 8:40am

Emboesso, it doesn't sound legal to me (though I'll let others lay down the facts), but I will say that I've never heard of anything like that.

Doctor X, not to turn this thread into a huge rhetorical debate, but I will say that by and large the ATA, and similar bullshido/mcdojo practices succeed because the students/consumers (in the case of parents) think they're being given what they think they want. I phrase it like that because although many want 'to be able to fight', if they were offered classes that would actually teach them to fight, they would pass (typically because they're too hard/there's very little back-patting).

It's all marketing these days. Though I will say, rank issues aside (though lord knows it's a GIANT issue), many people are getting benefit out of their involvement with mcdojos, the problem is it's just not the advertised benefits.

**Trubble** · Posted On: 8/21/2006 9:12am

Originally Posted by DayOfTheJackass

You know, reading this, one thing in particular has me bemused. The descriptions of the chevrons, stripes, collar yokes and patches on the uniforms, this I find amazing as I tend to wear through judo gi's like nobodies business. I mean the collars fray, the knees go, seems split. Are you guys forever buying and re-pimping new uniforms???

yeah, i noticed all the uniforms are nice and pressed (you can see the clean, crisp creases in some of the pictures of instructors). as an instructor/student myself my uniforms are rarely that nice... save on occasions when the GM is making an appearance for a belt ceremony... aside from that i have two very worn and distressed dobaks. all the adornments make it look almost militaristic, esp. the navy suits coats some masters wear. sparring an ATA black belt would almost be like sparring a bag of skittles with all the colors splashed about...

**DayOfTheJackass** · Posted On: 8/21/2006 10:30am

I didn't mean to be rude about it, in fact I've wondered the same about guys who put all kinds of stuff on all manner of martial arts uniforms.

**Shu2jack** · Posted On: 8/21/2006 3:10pm

yeah, i noticed all the uniforms are nice and pressed (you can see the clean, crisp creases in some of the pictures of instructors). as an instructor/student myself my uniforms are rarely that nice... save on occasions when the GM is making an appearance for a belt ceremony... aside from that i have two very worn and distressed dobaks. all the adornments make it look almost militaristic, esp. the navy suits coats some masters wear. sparring an ATA black belt would almost be like sparring a bag of skittles with all the colors splashed about...

What is so wrong with me taking care of my uniform and attempting to put on a professional appearance when I put on the uniform? You only make sure your uniform looks nice when the GM makes an appearance, isn't everyone else and your students worth the same curtesy, or is your GM a demi-god who is the only one worthy of such a thing?

That being said, after teaching- and especially after a work out- my uniform is the total oppisate of what it came in looking like.

**Doctor X** · Posted On: 8/21/2006 3:27pm

Originally Posted by Lv1Sierpinski

Doctor X, not to turn this thread into a huge rhetorical debate, but I will say that by and large the ATA, and similar bullshido/mcdojo practices succeed because the students/consumers (in the case of parents) think they're being given what they think they want. I phrase it like that because although many want 'to be able to fight', if they were offered classes that would actually teach them to fight, they would pass (typically because they're too hard/there's very little back-patting).

Absolutely, and when they find out they are wrong, it is far more comforting to hide in a lie than accept it. People will also chase after the external glories that make them feel better and support the delusion.

It's all marketing these days. Though I will say, rank issues aside (though lord knows it's a GIANT issue), many people are getting benefit out of their involvement with mcdojos, the problem is it's just not the advertised benefits.

This is true.

One could say the same for religion. . . .

:5slick:

--J.D.

P.S. One of the highest insults is to state that a practitioner has a "well-pressed gi."

**GoldenJonas** · Posted On: 8/21/2006 3:33pm

Originally Posted by JohnnyCache

Just out of curiosity, can someone from the Bullshido Law Squad tell us if it is really possible to copyright a series of movements?

Not sure if I'm on the Bullie Law Squad, but, since no one answered your question. Yes, in potentially two different ways. First, the written description of the kata could be submitted and then the actual movements could be submitted (i.e., a vid of the form). If it is determined that the vid would fall under the protectable pantomime/choreography section, it could be protected.

Originally Posted by Ronin.74

After which, could someone from the Bullshido Law Squad tell us if we can form our own Bullshido Police Force to deal with organizations like the ATA?

Vigilante Ninja style?

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 8/21/2006 3:42pm

Originally Posted by GoldenJonas

Not sure if I'm on the Bullie Law Squad, but, since no one answered your question. Yes, in potentially two different ways. First, the written description of the kata could be submitted and then the actual movements could be submitted (i.e., a vid of the form). If it is determined that the vid would fall under the protectable pantomime/choreography section, it could be protected.

Vigilante Ninja style?

No we can't go vigilante NINJA style, because I suspect several Ninja orgs. would be on the list

**todekenkyokai** · Posted On: 8/21/2006 5:32pm

you know even when I did TKD (back in the 80's) My uniforms were always misshapen rolled up blood splattered(not always mine ) and generally not so pressed.yes th ekoreans would glare at me sometimes , but the truth of the matter is you gotta break a couple of eggs to make an omlette. and sometimes this is a dirty buisness
john

**Doctor X** · Posted On: 8/21/2006 7:22pm

The worshipping of clothes.

I do not have it at hand, but in R.W. Smith's chapter on Donn Draeger he describes training at the Kodokan where you go grab your stiff gi that had been soaked the day before from the peg to go roll. The embroidery on the gis--name--were started so people would not mix them up.

I mean, do people iron their t-shirts and shorts?

--J.D.