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  1. Cuchulain is offline

    Keeping you safe from Mongolians

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2008 11:24am


     Style: Sanda/Taijiquan *Hiatus*

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JackRusher: I think that learning to box or learning to grapple at an early age is great. But pushing them into competitions is wrong I think, as it's taking away so much time from the kids carefree childhood. But no your vid was no where near as bad, they had big gloves on and headguards and were fighting in a restrictive ruleset.

    The mma fight was two young kids, with only mma gloves for protection fighting in a ruleset which is illegal for non-pro adults in most places. The kid who lost clearly looked emotionally defeated on a few occasions earlier on and the fight was not stopped.
  2. Jhemsley is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2008 11:41am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jackrusher
    Do those of you who were shocked by the first video find this as repulsive? It's the tradition in my family for the men to start boxing at five.
    I don't agree with it. I think 5 is to early to kids to start kids boxing, but I don't find it repulsive. There are many significant differences that I saw when I watched your video.

    1) Protective headgear. This is the biggest thing for me. Clearly, no one wants a kid to walk away with a concusion or permanently damaged from your event. The moment you see the kids with the Vader masks on, its obvious. At no point in the MMA event did I get the impression that anyone gave a damn about the safety of the kids.

    2) Big, protective gloves. That can't be done with MMA gloves, which kind of suggests it shouldn't be done with kids at all.

    3) The boxing event has what appears to be an attentive ref looking out for the health of the fighters, instead of a hic whose only purpose is to indicate when the rounds stop.

    4) This is clearly some kind of event with a real sanctioning body that doesn't take its name, culture and emblemn from lethal dog fighting. The entire attitude of the two events are different in that respect.

    5) The ref stops action at the first sign of a problem in this fight. In the MMA fighter, there were multiple barrages that should have resulted in a stoppage, particularily when the one kid in blue sat under mount for 45 secs taking shots. Also when he was turned sideways standing up and bent over taking a 20 round combination to the ribs without any effort to get away.

    6) They crowd looks like friends and family at a small event, for kids boxing. The clear purpose is for kids to learn a sport. In the other event, the purpose is to entertain drunken strangers with two kids beating on each other with no concern for their safety. This carries over to the next point.

    7) There is a significant difference between the rules, event presentation, and equipment used in kids boxing and professional boxing. There was no significant difference in the kids MMA event - the no leg lock thing was token. The boxing reminded me of a kids soccor game. The MMA event reminded me of the UFC.

    8) The split decision in the MMA one shows that the judges didn't know what they were watching, which further indicates the ref didn't either, and no one was really keeping track of the safety of the kids. The kid in blue got beaten badly - which isn't an insult. He never should have been there to being with.

    9) The MMA fight involved a kid repeatedly banging the other into the fence. I'm not sure that would be allowed in an adult Amateur event. Yet in the In Bred Fight League, its all good. Nothing in the kids boxing was done that wouldn't be allowed in adult Amateur events.

    Edit: Added spaces for more readibility.
    Last edited by Jhemsley; 2/10/2008 12:38pm at .
  3. HonkyTonkMan is offline
    HonkyTonkMan's Avatar

    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2008 11:45am

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuchulain
    JackRusher: I think that learning to box or learning to grapple at an early age is great. But pushing them into competitions is wrong I think, as it's taking away so much time from the kids carefree childhood. But no your vid was no where near as bad, they had big gloves on and headguards and were fighting in a restrictive ruleset.

    The mma fight was two young kids, with only mma gloves for protection fighting in a ruleset which is illegal for non-pro adults in most places. The kid who lost clearly looked emotionally defeated on a few occasions earlier on and the fight was not stopped.

    Thats my problem with it.

    Say the kids were wearing headgear, heavy padded gloves, and shin and kick protection, then yeah, its different, but to put them in that type of environ, is irresponsible.

    Of course, some would say that putting achild in a XMA tournet where the pressure is intense to perform, is the same thing.

    Some kids can handle it, others cant. I would say that most cant.
  4. DTM is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2008 12:09pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You want to talk about the letality of your ninja ****, make a film of you, nobody else, you fighting another adult with the stuff you claim to know.
    I would like to see such a film as long as the other adult is a trained boxer/grappler, hell even some mean old biker would prolly beat up a BBT guy. MOney neads to be banned for posting that repulsive ****. What a fucking loser Bujinkan fucktard.
  5. mrblackmagic is offline
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    My pleasure.

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2008 12:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: yang taichi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The video shocked me at first, but then I watched it again. I'm torn on this one. The safety issues are appauling, but then I think of parents who want their kids to learn how to fight. I am strongly anti-McDojo, but is that the alternative? That was hard to watch. I'm somebody who doesn't say that often.
    Sumus extra manum tuam.
  6. Odacon is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2008 12:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Watch the kids pankration that are on youtube. Far safer and yet still real martial arts. As for the boxing video, Jhemsley pretty much hit every point perfectly.
  7. Father Dagon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2008 12:43pm


     Style: None, but looking.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What's next? FMA with sharp edge drills for 5-year olds? I think it would be more humane if one of the kids met me (a couch potato at 90 kg and 182 cm) and got a good knee to the stomach.
  8. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2008 1:05pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuchulain
    The mma fight was two young kids, with only mma gloves for protection fighting in a ruleset which is illegal for non-pro adults in most places.
    I agree with this objection, along with most of the ones enumerated by Jhemsley. I asked my question because I couldn't tell whether the initial reaction was specific to this video/ruleset, or if it was based on a general "combat sports aren't for kids" sentiment.

    Cheers.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  9. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2008 1:14pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are plenty of alive martial sports for kids: wrestling, judo, boxing (I have not checked out pankration.) This mma is not needed for them and a bad idea. The hype around the event was ridiculous and inappropriate for anything short of adults. The safety measures were not adequate and everyone involved pretty clueless. Also, outside o the abuse and moral issue, why bother getting better? These kids are getting all the trappings and hype as if they have reached the highest level of mma. What state sanctioned this?
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2008 1:19pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrblackmagic
    The video shocked me at first, but then I watched it again. I'm torn on this one. The safety issues are appauling, but then I think of parents who want their kids to learn how to fight. I am strongly anti-McDojo, but is that the alternative? That was hard to watch. I'm somebody who doesn't say that often.
    Do the same thing presented in jackrusher's video and there would be no complaints.

    A good ref, proper gear including shin guards IMO, and sanctioned. To me they wanted a knock out (these are kids please) then, to not hurt their egos, they made it a Draw.

    That is just as bad as any McDojo pay for belt not skill.
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