Patriot Ordnance Factory - P415

**SpringHeeledJack** · Posted On: 2/11/2008 7:29am

Originally Posted by datdamnmachine

I was the designated 249 man so that was even more fun...blah! carbine.

I carried a 249 during MCT. I maybe fired 8 rounds during the field exercises. That goddamned thing would fire one shot then jam. I ended up giving all my ammo to the other guys in my fire team. When we would engage in any kind of fire fight with another platoon, I'd just make the noises with my mouth: *pow* *boom* *pop* *bddddurp* That was so fucking unsatisfying. I hate the 249

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 2/11/2008 12:04pm

Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack

I carried a 249 during MCT. I maybe fired 8 rounds during the field exercises. That goddamned thing would fire one shot then jam. I ended up giving all my ammo to the other guys in my fire team. When we would engage in any kind of fire fight with another platoon, I'd just make the noises with my mouth: *pow* *boom* *pop* *bddddurp* That was so fucking unsatisfying. I hate the 249

Yeah, usually, the new guy gets it and eventually, another new guy comes onto the team and you get an M16. Well, when it was about time for the changeover to happen, I was switched to a new team and got the 249, then I go over to Korea and get the 249 over there. I'm like...fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!

Yeah, and don't try using a STANAG mag on there, like that's going to work. For the most part mine wouldn't jam as much but I think I was an exception to the rule. Matter of fact, I know I was. I learned early on how to clean that SOB real good. Of course, it would practically take me all day to clean the damn thing. Of course it did keep me out of the motor pool after range day. But then again, since I was going to be there all day, the NCO's would pass their weapons off to the 249 guys who were going to be there all day cleaning that damn thing. It's like, we are there all day because we are cleaning ONE weapon and now you are going to try and get us to clean MORE weapons? Plus, 249 guys still had to qualify with the M16 so not only did you have to clean your 249 and an M16, but now you have others passing the buck to clean their stuff. Plus, they aren't even close to being easily cleaned.

It's one of the reasons I'm looking into gas-piston carbines. Lower maintenance and higher reliability if I can find the right one. And the one I posted seems to require the lazy man's approach to cleaning for it's required upkeep. I mean "whipe it down with a towel"? We need to get this kind of stuff over to the middle east.

**Colby** · Posted On: 2/11/2008 1:19pm

I hated carrying the SAW. Just like the 60, there is no way to comfortably carry one. There are worse things to carry though (SMAW come immediately to mind). It was bad enough being a Dragon gunner, but we still had to carry crew weapons like SAWs and 60'S as well. That put our hump loads to about 80-100 pounds depending on what you got. Don't get me started on cleaning weapons. I still have an assortment of toothbrushes and dental picks thanks to that.

At least we didn't get bent like the heavy guns platoon though. Ever see a MK-19 packed on a ruck? Thats what happens when the C.O. wants to get in shape to try out for Recon.

Anybody seen these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhstuvzMiB0
They are supposed to be pretty forgiving if not cleaned thoroughly. All I know is...I want one! Full auto 12 Ga with hardly any recoil. There are supposed to be little grenade rounds for it too. For CQB, this thing looks pretty nice. It sure beats Rem 870's.

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 2/11/2008 4:30pm

Damn, that's some scary **** right there. A shotgun to end all shotguns!

MK-19 on a ruck...unbelievable. There are just some weapon systems that are not meant to to be packed on a ruck and that's one of them. Damn company commanders!

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 2/11/2008 4:31pm

At the SWCS we just dipped ALL our weapons, in and out of weapons recovery in 40 minutes. I was appalled when I got to Riley and was handed a cleaning kit.

The shotgun is okay - not really how a weapon like that is used though. You'd be better off loading that bitch with subminiature grenades.

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 2/11/2008 8:17pm

Originally Posted by SFGOON

At the SWCS we just dipped ALL our weapons, in and out of weapons recovery in 40 minutes. I was appalled when I got to Riley and was handed a cleaning kit.

The shotgun is okay - not really how a weapon like that is used though. You'd be better off loading that bitch with subminiature grenades.

That's what I was thinking, the shotgun part wasn't the scary thing, it was the fact that you could launch mini-grenades from it. The smallest auto-grenade launcher next to that (unless I've been out of the mil too long) is the aforementioned MK-19 and the other single shot stand alone model I believe. I don't think that one was auto.

I'm just assuming that by "dipped", you are talking about solvent?

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 2/11/2008 8:23pm

Like a waterfall of the ****, yes. Just dip it, put it on a hanger over the basin, let it drip dry for about 10 minutes, then crack it open and wipe the **** out.

It's an expensive waste of CLP but what the **** ever, we had better **** to do I guess.

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 2/11/2008 11:25pm

Originally Posted by SFGOON

Like a waterfall of the ****, yes. Just dip it, put it on a hanger over the basin, let it drip dry for about 10 minutes, then crack it open and wipe the **** out.

It's an expensive waste of CLP but what the **** ever, we had better **** to do I guess.

Ah, I know exactly what you are talking about. Unfortunately for some of us, ours was in the motor pool. It was the good old solvent fountain. I'd see the mechanics all the time dipping their stuff in there or just the main pieces and wiping them down. It worked especially well on the outside surface. Made an old M16 look fresh from the factory. And the carbon buildup just wiped off like dust on the counter. Of course the rest of us couldn't get away with that because we had to do ours at the barracks with the good old cleaning kits. It was crazy how much time it takes to clean a dirty ass M16. Then again, our unit was more garrison based and it was all about looking pretty and PMCSing vehicles. It was times like those and some other interesting things that made me decide to call it a day with the military. Like when I asked my NCO why couldn't we do PT that would not only get us fit and in shape but was enjoyable and he told me that "PT isn't supposed to be fun"! Well **** son, that doesn't mean we can't make it fun. Going out to the field wasn't fun but that doesn't mean we couldn't make it fun.

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 2/11/2008 11:43pm

I hated being in turd units like that.

Reliable vehicles though!

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 2/11/2008 11:57pm

Originally Posted by SFGOON

I hated being in turd units like that.

Reliable vehicles though!

Hahahahahahahaha...yeah, at the very least, that is what we had.

It didn't help either that our new 1st Sgt was a drill Sgt so he decided he was going to take control of PT to whip us into shape. We ended up stressing him out so bad that our platoon Sgt's had us meet to discuss the issue. That's were the aforementioned Sgt stated that PT wasn't suppose to be fun. It showed one of the problems with the military, the inability to change as needed, to be forward thinkers, and to be flexible when conditions required it. Oh, you heard about the military being those things all the time but in practice... Not to say the whole military, but an unfortunate large chunk of it.

Lets not forget the wonderful detail work either. I see you are in Seattle, not sure if you were ever on Fort Lewis but I used to be stationed there. 29th Signal. The problem we had from what I understood was that although we were a battalion, they felt that we were as large as a brigade and so we were tasked out for details as such. Fun times.