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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WeaselSpleen
    McDojo maybe, but not really bullshido. I don't see much personal aggrandizement or absurd claims to d34dliness, this looks to me like a "feel good" school, where people can participate in a fitness program with Japanese trappings, that does not require real competition.

    Nothing here seems like outright fabrication or extreme exaggeration, just soft, non-threatening training and the usual marketing/pr language to sell memberships.
    She says Koyama Tenmon Ryu was created in the 1300s. That would make it even older than Katori Shnto Ryu, the oldest documented martial art. Isn't that just a little bit extreme? It certainly sounds like extreme exaggeration to me.

    She claims to hold "menkyo chuden" which according to the people living in Japan on E-Budo, would only be a middle level license, not a teaching one at all.

    She also said she was appointed "metsuke," and claims it means "international representative" but it can only mean in Japanese that she was either appointed as "a way of seeing without focusing on a single point" or as "an inspector in Edo period Japan was responsible for watching over Daimyo."

    Her website is filled with incorrect Japanese, which is surprising since she mentions that the only other place to study Koyama Tenmon Ryu besides her school is in Japan. If she had 30 years of training and 20 years of teaching, the you would think that she should be able to at least get basic Japanese words spelled correctly, even if she had learned in the US.

    But none of the guys in Japan over on E-Budo have ever heard of her school. With over 700 years of history, someone certainly would have heard of it by now. They even said: "She is pretty clearly a fake."

    Take a look at the "Bad Budo Forum" over on E-Budo to see what I am talking about, however you have to become a member to be able to view the contents of that section.
    Last edited by BlinkYouAreDead; 2/08/2008 10:47pm at .

  2. #12

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    E-budo is wacky. Members play at research, but of course Ninja business gets a free pass, since the admins practice Takamatsuden arts. There are many knowledgeable people on e-budo, which doesn't keep them from doing sloppy-ass work which amounts to having LULZ at site design.

    Anyway, I decided to do actual research and came up with the following:

    * Donna Murphy's name is actually (or was) Donna Murphy del Cueto.

    * Presumably, she is/was related/married to Guillermo Murphy del Cueto, a Daito-ryu instructor who runs this dojo: http://www.niagara.com/~zain/html/fujiyama.htm He claims affiliation with the Dai Nippon Daito Ryu Aiki Bujutsu Rengokai and posted a greeting at Daitouryu.com. (http://www.daitouryu.com/syoudoukan/.../kenshou04.htm) He's also affiliated with a local Daito-ryu teacher of my acquiantence named Mike Chinadi.

    * Daitouryu.com is supposedly linked to Saigoha Daitouryu. This is *not* the fraudulent Saigo-ha school common in Canada, but a small Japan-based organization. (Confused yet?) It is not a terribly well-known branch.

    * Mr. del Cueto links to Murphy's site on his own site.

    * The Koyama-ryu was supposedly a real Aizu clan martial art and thus, linked t Daito-ryu. Don't know about Koyama Tenmon, though "Tenmon" is the name of an era (1532-1554). I have no idea whether there's a contemporary Koyama-ryu.

    My hypothesis: It's modified Daito-ryu that's using a different name for some reason.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlinkYouAreDead
    She says Koyama Tenmon Ryu was created in the 1300s. That would make it even older than Katori Shnto Ryu, the oldest documented martial art. Isn't that just a little bit extreme? It certainly sounds like extreme exaggeration to me.
    It's lifted from Daito-ryu, which makes this claim. Nobody believes Daito-ryu either, but it's a traditional claim.

    She claims to hold "menkyo chuden" which according to the people living in Japan on E-Budo, would only be a middle level license, not a teaching one at all.
    It depends on the organization.

    She also said she was appointed "metsuke," and claims it means "international representative" but it can only mean in Japanese that she was either appointed as "a way of seeing without focusing on a single point" or as "an inspector in Edo period Japan was responsible for watching over Daimyo."
    Yeah, that's wacky. Koryu use many odd, nonstandard titles and terms. I have no idea whether this would be one of them, but it seems doubtful.

    But none of the guys in Japan over on E-Budo have ever heard of her school. With over 700 years of history, someone certainly would have heard of it by now. They even said: "She is pretty clearly a fake."
    The funny thing is that I looked up Koyama-ryu on e-budo itself.

    Anyway, she seems to be linked to a guy who claims to teach Daito-ryu and refers people to her. She has a badly designed site. I have no idea about how it all ultimately fits together, but it seems to be more complicated than pure invention.
    Last edited by eyebeams; 2/09/2008 12:14am at .

  4. #14

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Doing some further research, this Rengokai group is headed by an Ichikawa Yoshinori and a Hanemura Sensei, who I can't find anything about aside from some scattered refs on e-budo, but at this point their relationship with aiki gets too complex for me to delve, but it may be some melange of a dodgy Japanese group with a dodgy Canadian group, and Murphy is derivative of the result.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by eyebeams
    Anyway, I decided to do actual research and came up with the following...

    My hypothesis: It's modified Daito-ryu that's using a different name for some reason.
    Man! That was some great stuff you came up with. Thanks for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by eyebeams
    Donna Murphy's name is actually (or was) Donna Murphy del Cueto.
    How were you able to find out her true name/identity? That was a pretty neat trick.

    Quote Originally Posted by eyebeams
    She has a badly designed site.
    Her website is so messed up. There are a lot of pages that don't link to the others. I only found them by individually typing the the URLs as they follow a numeric pattern.

    It is quite sad in that she talks about "rightfulness, truthfulness, honor" and the like, but aparently doesn't have any herself as her claims appear to be completely flalse. What kind of role model for children, which she actively targets, is that?

    Hmm, there must be some more to this story...

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlinkYouAreDead
    Man! That was some great stuff you came up with. Thanks for that.


    How were you able to find out her true name/identity? That was a pretty neat trick.
    The magic of Google combined with professional research experience.


    Her website is so messed up. There are a lot of pages that don't link to the others. I only found them by individually typing the the URLs as they follow a numeric pattern.

    It is quite sad in that she talks about "rightfulness, truthfulness, honor" and the like, but aparently doesn't have any herself as her claims appear to be completely flalse. What kind of role model for children, which she actively targets, is that?

    Hmm, there must be some more to this story...
    Canadian Aikijutsu is really fucked up. There are many unrecognized styles, but there are so many conflicts in recognized styles too that it's difficult to work things out. And in isolation, these lineages develop their own ways of doing things.

    My feeling has always been that without a strong lineage you should either keep your art to yourself or develop a competitive record so strong it doesn't matter whether or not you say it comes from Martians -- and even then, you owe it to everyone to prove it, or admit it's a myth.

  7. #17

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Murphy Del Cueto

    Hello, It is good to research as there are so many fakes out there (I was victim to a fake teacher in the past with lineage to the fake Daito-ryu soke in Canada we all know about ), however I do know the Murphy Del Cueto's personallly G. Murphy Del Cueto is 100% legit. If you try to find the Rengokai on google/ yahoo etc - good luck.
    The Murphy Del Cueto's are very very kind, spiratual and religious people whom teach non-profit and seek NO fame or money. I cannot speak of Mrs. G Murphy Del Cueto's dojo as I have not trained there -but I can stand up for as a person and anyghing she would write is either 100% correct OR she has been told it is by her teacher.

    The Rengokai is small/ personal and does not seek publicity or students. These dojo still exist out there.
    I train traditional authentic Okinawan Goju-ryu as well but if you google my teacher (Nanko Minei-10th dan) or any of the other 20+ 8-10th Dans in Okinawa -you can barely find anything- excpet gai-jin saying "this is my teacher" or "I attended a seminar with"... But I assure you (and so do my sore legs from the last gasshuku in August in Okinawa with all of these masters)- that they DO INDEED EXIST. They don't advertisie in their own towns and villages in Japan, not even yellow pages so you won't find web pages.

    Again research is GREAT and weeding out the BS is GREAT but sometimes the legit sneak under the radar and the fakes have a million links, web pages and "lineage" charts trying to prove themselves.

    Hope that helps.

    Yours in Budo
    Patrick:icon_thum

  8. #18

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Shin Wa Kan Dojo is the Niagara Region's only koryu bujutsu school owned and operated by a woman instructor."


    Looking at the photo - can anyone confirm it IS a woman...?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #19
    I feel like you eyeballin' me, dawg!
    DarkPhoenix's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sushi-Boy View Post
    "Shin Wa Kan Dojo is the Niagara Region's only koryu bujutsu school owned and operated by a woman instructor."


    Looking at the photo - can anyone confirm it IS a woman...?
    It's not. It's Napoleon Dynamite, as posted previous.

    Can't you tell by his need a Chapstick. Gaaah.


    I feel like you eye-bawlin' me, dawg!

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