American Top Team, Say It Ain't So!

[Rivington]

A person not only has to have the moolah, he has to be in good enough shape and have the physical qualities, skills coordination and ability/willingness to bang to do those 24 hours and pass, complete the thing satisfactorily.

What kind of people would those? Yellow Bambooers? Ashida Kims? Completely clueless noobs?

Someone shilling bullshido need not be in good shape to do so. However, a fair number of them are in good shape; they simply found it more profitable to sell magic to marks than fighting ability to dedicated students. I doubt YB or Kim could pass the seminar, but I'd bet that someone at the notorious West Winds school could, or that some athletic red belt who also granted himself nine black belts could, or someone just out of the military who wants to claim all sorts of secret nasty Special Operator abilities he actually lacks could.

[oldman34]

Possibly even require a return trip every six months to check on the teachers skill level to see if it has improved.

[Sakamonster]

Possibly even require a return trip every six months to check on the teachers skill level to see if it has improved.

Or, resources allowing, random surprise quality assurance visits where an ATT guy watches your "MMA" class.

[PirateJon]

Or for the same 8 large, you could get a lot of privates from a top level coach and step your game up the old fashioned way.

On the down side you'd miss out on all the exciting merchandising oppertunities.

[Ke?poFist]

Or for the same 8 large, you could get a lot of privates from a top level coach and step your game up the old fashioned way.

On the down side you'd miss out on all the exciting merchandising oppertunities.

Bingo

[Phrost]

sure, but you miss my point.

requiring x number of years teaching martial arts is meaningless, so why bother with that?

I wasn't proposing specific requirements, just the idea of requirements in the first place.

if this program was run as a means to:

1. Refine or "clean up" the participant's core techniques/fundamentals to ATT standards.
2. Provide guidance on an ATT approved structured program should be run.
3. Evaluate the participants' ability to provide instruction in these things over the course of the 3 day seminar.

...then I honestly don't see a problem with it. Now if you're going into this with no idea how to throw a jab or how to escape the mount (for example), then I would hope you wouldn't be allowed to participate.

[greenguy]

You can't do that and still say you're training MMA. What would the point be of the program? to look like you're doing mma?

This is the point at hand IMHO. I am only up to page 37 or something like that in this thread, but to this point much of the defence of the program is that they are teaching only the basics. The curriculum has been posted, and it is basic. Having said that, is an upa and an armbar going to win you many fights in a cage? I think not.

If someone takes this level one course and advertises that they teach MMA, that may not be entirely false. However, Joe Average may be under the mistaken impression that he will be able to become an MMA fighter.

What I am suggesting, and I don't think I am alone in all this, is that there be some sort of transparency with respect to what is being taught at these schools after their instructors go and get certified. Even something as basic as saying you can learn basic MMA fundamentals or something like that would probably be sufficient.

[bob]

I'll admit I haven't read every single post on this thread so apologies if this has already been posted but...

A quick skim of some of the websites of schools offering this program shows that when you click on the MMA program several of them just show this blurb (emphasis theirs):

Dynamic Duo Martial Arts Academy is proud to offer American Top Team Certified Mixed Martial Arts Program MMA. This program is offered for children and adults. We are the only school in New Jersey certified by Ricardo Liborio to teach this program. This program will consist of Striking, Clinching, Takedowns & Grappling. Whether you are a novice or a black belt, this is a great program for you. Find out more about American Top Team.

The American Top Team is one of the largest and most active Mixed Martial Arts (“MMA”) teams in the world. The team has over 1,000 members, more than thirty of whom compete professionally in MMA, boxing, grappling, and muay thai events all over the world such as The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC), Pride, K-1, BoDog, IFL as well as other combat leagues.

ATT features expert instruction in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, MMA (Mixed Martial Arts), boxing, wrestling, muay thai, judo, and kids mma to produce well rounded competitors competent in all disciplines of Mixed Martial Arts.

American Top Team has rapidly developed a reputation of success and has consistently produced many champions on an individual and team basis. This success is the direct result of the dedication, hard work, and discipline of our students and competitors combined with the highest level of instruction.

"There are probably four or five great teams that are capable of putting out world champions," declares thirty-five-year-old UFC president White, "and American Top Team is one of them." Quote from UFC President Dana White Miami New Times article.

Now there's nothing technically untrue there, but if you didn't know the full facts it would be very easy to read that as saying "our school provides expert instruction in BJJ, MMA, boxing, wrestling, MT, judo and kids mma to produce well rounded competitors in all disciplines of MMA."

In fact I'd go so far as to say that it would be an unusually canny and well informed consumer who would read it any other way.

[Pandinha]

It does to me too.

[bob]

To me it's almost the equivalent of going to a weekend first aid course with one of the top ER specialists in the world and then sticking his medical degree up on my wall.