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  1. Tenchu is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2008 3:03am


     Style: Muay Thai. Ansatsuken.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    There is NO SCIENCE behind Iron Palm. There is no proof that Iron Palm works.
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake

    There is anecdotal evidence produced by people who believe it works. Many people say they have forged hands yet, they never produce the before and after X-rays.

    That said I did IP for quite awhile it works. Although, hitting a heavy bag also works. Wiki is full of **** when it comes to most Martial art articles, please site another source.
    Well you have obviously met a lot of practitioners of Iron Palm.

    Watch this video all:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtDF1SV3lHc

    Please pay special attention to the man who can break through 3 times more concrete with his hands than he can with a sledge hammer.

    Now tell me, is this man in front of scientists and National Geographic film crews tellling lies and doing magic and commiting fraud?

    I am pro Muay Thai boxer, I have been to Wu Dang, I have met men who have done this, as well as done a little myself.

    What Iron Palm training does is you slap your hand loose on a bag filled with sand of small gravel. Each slap creates micro fractures in the bones of the hands. When the hands bones re heal they heal more dense, with less air. This was also proved if you watch the full National Geogrphic Fight Science show. This is makes the bones harder and stronger. Still dont believe me? This is a martial arts forum, right? I imagine most of you have some muscle quality, maybe not as much as the guy in the trailer, but enough to do some damage, no? Well, lets scale down. Go find one single brick, and then prop it up and then punch it! Hand broken? Tell me if you think your muscle alone is enough to break the brick, or do you think it is possible that your bones will not bear the impact of the strike unless they have been previously conditioned? I.e. Iron Palm.

    Case is closed.

    I have not done enough training in it to say I have mastered Iron Palm, but the guys I met who have, their hands are obviously stronger. They have cartledge build ups between the bones which makes the hands lock up tighter. They also have bones that are harder, you can feel it just by touching their knuckles. It feels more like a rock than a hand.

    You guys who are saying this is bullshit obviously have very isolated martial careers.
  2. Tenchu is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2008 3:09am


     Style: Muay Thai. Ansatsuken.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by krood1
    So, from what I am getting here from those that use is Iron Palm does condition hands and the question is does its effect have significant value in a fight.
    Iron palm makes your hands heavier, and is particularily good for knife hand strikes if anyone here uses them. Also, most of the training in Iron Palm you will do will increase your strike power. I seen one guy who has done iron palm, he say it increase your strike power by up to 5 times and also it increase your target penetration. Fighting with bare hands you will be able to crack a skull with an Iron Palm strike. So I would say it has merit.
  3. BOXMAN is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2008 7:35am


     Style: Shotokan, Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenchu
    You guys who are saying this is bullshit obviously have very isolated martial careers.
    Some here have extensive experience. Some are 6 months into BJJ or MMA and only know the Gracies revelutionalized the octogon.

    If it's not Muay Thai or BJJ to them.....it's just not. Very limited indeed.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2008 9:56am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by krood1
    Some here have extensive experience. Some are 6 months into BJJ or MMA and only know the Gracies revelutionalized the octogon.

    If it's not Muay Thai or BJJ to them.....it's just not. Very limited indeed.
    Don't bring this **** in here unless you have proof.

    If you two idiots can't distinguish between a scientific study and anecdotal evidence you need to read more and STFU.

    Just because I think it works, doesn't make it a scientific study. If it hurts your feelings that I won't gloss over this FACT then quit reading. Pulling random **** from other studies to prove a point does not a study make. Using Wolf's, law without a study, doesn't prove anything.

    That is what IP people do. Hell, I used to argue that way. The X-Ray pics that Ronin supposedly made doesn't prove anything. It isn't a scientific study. You need to be smacked in your mouth for using Fight Science as proof of anything.

    Case Closed using fight science? Bwahahahahahahahaha.


    Now tell me, is this man in front of scientists and National Geographic film crews tellling lies and doing magic and commiting fraud?
    Films crews? Film Crews?

    All I have to do is watch his body language to notice, he DOESN'T FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THE SLEDGE HAMMER. Let's not forget to mention the spacers that allow for the domino effect in the breaking of the bricks.
  5. Milquetoast is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2008 9:56am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Xingyi, Silat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenchu
    [Each slap creates micro fractures in the bones of the hands. When the hands bones re heal they heal more dense, with less air. This was also proved if you watch the full National Geogrphic Fight Science show. This is makes the bones harder and stronger. I.e. Iron Palm.
    Case is closed.
    There is nothing in this statement that has been proven to be true as far as I know. Maybe that guy just naturally has dense bones, and decided to capitalize on that in one of the few ways he can. Perhaps he has exceptional technique. If you can find a scientific study of the effects of Iron Palm, I'd love to read it.
    As to my personal beliefs, I do think that Iron Palm does help condition striking surfaces, but I think this because I've seen people as they progress through it, and they hit harder afterwards. I think it undermines CMA when pseudoscience is passed on to justify our arts, it makes us look desperate and silly.
    To try to raise the bar for the standard of evidence, I'm in veterinary school, so I'm fairly familiar with orthopedics and orthopedic diseases. I'm sure there are people here who know more than I do, but saying the bones have less air is just silly.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2008 10:05am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Milquetoast
    There is nothing in this statement that has been proven to be true as far as I know. Maybe that guy just naturally has dense bones, and decided to capitalize on that in one of the few ways he can. Perhaps he has exceptional technique. If you can find a scientific study of the effects of Iron Palm, I'd love to read it.
    As to my personal beliefs, I do think that Iron Palm does help condition striking surfaces, but I think this because I've seen people as they progress through it, and they hit harder afterwards. I think it undermines CMA when pseudoscience is passed on to justify our arts, it makes us look desperate and silly.
    To try to raise the bar for the standard of evidence, I'm in veterinary school, so I'm fairly familiar with orthopedics and orthopedic diseases. I'm sure there are people here who know more than I do, but saying the bones have less air is just silly.
    Exactly.


    No one said it doesn't work 100%. Some said it works (myself included). Some said there are other/better ways (Myself included). Most admit it is anecdotal.

    My point is do people forge their hand? Possibly, I haven't seen pictures but, I can believe that. I know what happened when I conditioned my forearms, palms shins, and hands for 7 plus years 3-4 times a week. I also used our version of Herbal Jow.

    Thing is there was nothing conducted to prove that hitting a heavy bag doesn't have the same effect. There is nothing to prove repeated blows, during boxing, doesn't forge your hand. There is nothing to prove that clapping your hands, at a game, show doesn't do the same thing.

    Yes, I'm being asinine. The point is there is no science behind IP at this point in time. One day maybe someone will do a double blind study and prove it works. Until then, anyone saying ti is scientifically proven isn't telling the whole story.
  7. DHNK is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2008 11:44am


     Style: MT\KM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you are a professional MT boxer, you must have a record and be known SOMEWHERE on the internet. Name please.
  8. Chili Pepper is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2008 1:02pm


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    All I have to do is watch his body language to notice, he DOESN'T FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THE SLEDGE HAMMER. Let's not forget to mention the spacers that allow for the domino effect in the breaking of the bricks.
    Absolutely, and, as long as you use spacers, you are breaking one brick, and then keeping the momentum going. Show me how much he can break without spacers - if it's more than what he can do with the sledge hammer, then I'll be impressed.
  9. Tenchu is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2008 9:03pm


     Style: Muay Thai. Ansatsuken.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    All I have to do is watch his body language to notice, he DOESN'T FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THE SLEDGE HAMMER. Let's not forget to mention the spacers that allow for the domino effect in the breaking of the bricks.
    That is what idiots say. The same show proved that the spacers dont matter. The force that breaks the bricks is consistant from the punch right through for every brick broken. The spacers make it easier because it is easier to break heaps of small bricks in one strike than one big one. It takes less power, but looks cool. However, it is the target penetration that makes it still impressive. Being able to absorb the impact that is enough to break one single brick, and not loose speed or power, and break another, and another, and another. There is no domino effect.

    If you still dont believe Iron Palm works, go try break a brick yourself. If your muscles arnt enough, and you need stronger bone, then you are wrong. If you dont even have muscle, go to the fuckin gym.
  10. Vulgar42Ox is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2008 9:22pm


     Style: BJJ, JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How do you use Iron Palm? Do you just slap someone in the face with it? Or do you try to like punch someone in the chest with some kind of Dim Make type thing? Is it the same as just open palm striking someone in the face so you dont break your hand? Too many questions? In a row? The last one wasnt even a question? Was it?
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