Lyoto Machida and Shotokan

**crappler** · Posted On: 7/28/2009 3:49pm

Originally Posted by Lu Tze

You mean like you did when you implied that BJJ was an offshoot of Japanese Jujitsu? Because that's the ignorant assertion I was calling you on, if you can't even get a simple fact right (BJJ is an offshoot of Judo), and can't be corrected on it without being a complete fucking dick, how the **** do you expect people to take your other points seriously?

Live up to your own standards, or stop crying about other people's.
But BJJ didn't change Judo... Judo is practised by a million people in Brazil, it's fucking huge over there! :P

This wasn't the main gist of the argument, it's a red herring designed to make you appear like you know what the **** you are talking about, which you don't. In fact, I'm not even really sure you know what you are arguing about. Nobody is saying BJJ changed Judo. The argument, which is really pretty simple, is that Machida's karate is different, and yes, influenced by the man who produced it and the country in which it is practiced. You are the dipshit saying it has nothing to do with Brazil culture, which is a stupid thing to say. And you are hoping to avoid being confronted by that by hair-splitting about whether the guys who taught the Gracies' MA were Judo guys are JJJ guys. That really doesn't fucking matter. Furthermore, you are acting like JJJ is this monolithic entity where nobody ever trained alive. Do you believe that?

**crappler** · Posted On: 7/28/2009 3:51pm

Originally Posted by Odacon

See my post prior to that one.

Oh, I get it. You weren't having a go at me, you were just trying to see if I was a, how shall I say it, "wanker"? No problem.:karated:

**crappler** · Posted On: 7/28/2009 4:01pm

Although there is this notion for a lot of people that JJJ is all compliance drills, I was never able to tell whether the alive training I received was the result of the influence of the Gracies or that of Duke Moore and Don Buck, who was a teacher of my teacher Dr. Dan Andrews. I simply assumed that the alive training was an important component of all JJ, and I'm not certain that Don Buck, Duke Moore and Ray Law never threw-down until the Gracies came along.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...t=13868&page=2

**Lu Tze** · Posted On: 7/28/2009 8:21pm

Originally Posted by crappler

And you are hoping to avoid being confronted by that by hair-splitting about whether the guys who taught the Gracies' MA were Judo guys are JJJ guys.

There are no hairs to split, we know exactly who taught the Gracies, and we know he never trained a day of JJJ in his life.

So please, confront away.

**frogdicks** · Posted On: 8/01/2009 3:17pm

Originally Posted by crappler

This wasn't the main gist of the argument, it's a red herring designed to make you appear like you know what the **** you are talking about, which you don't. In fact, I'm not even really sure you know what you are arguing about. Nobody is saying BJJ changed Judo. The argument, which is really pretty simple, is that Machida's karate is different, and yes, influenced by the man who produced it and the country in which it is practiced. You are the dipshit saying it has nothing to do with Brazil culture, which is a stupid thing to say. And you are hoping to avoid being confronted by that by hair-splitting about whether the guys who taught the Gracies' MA were Judo guys are JJJ guys. That really doesn't fucking matter. Furthermore, you are acting like JJJ is this monolithic entity where nobody ever trained alive. Do you believe that?

Any difference in Machida's Karate would be the result of his father changing it, not "Brazilian culture" and the statistic about Brazil being so violent in terms of murder rates is misleading because nearly all of those happen in the barrios and most of the rest happens with connected drug runners in the more developed areas, for the average person it's relatively safe.

Mostly this is just about your theory of cultural influence, mainly if people are influenced subconsciously by "Brazilian culture" by existing within land controlled by the Armed Forces of the Federative Republic of Brazil, then what is Brazilian culture? Brazilian people influenced by Brazilian people influencing themselves?

In the political sphere, that theory of cultural influence is Fascist (not using this as a hotword, that is literally the cultural part of Fascist theory).