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  1. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 8:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by crappler View Post
    That argument made absolutely no sense. The central point, that the Gracies' changed what they learned, is indisputable and has nothing to do with beaches and statutes of Jesus, moron.
    It did make sense, because the fundamental differences to JJJ were already introduced by Judo (i.e. aliveness).

    The Gracies changed the focus, which arguably led to BJJ being what it is today true, although not because they're Brazilian (Judo is still more popular in Brazil than BJJ, so it obviously didn't magically morph of its own accord).

    So your hypothesis is wrong on two counts, moron.

    You're so close as well, the environment in which a martial art is practised does affect how it develops, but it has nothing to do with country or culture...
  2. Vieux Normand is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 9:11pm

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     Style: 血鷲

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Machida's own website still calls what is taught at his family's Belem dojo (where he trains) "Shotokan Karate", and it's still listed as having JKA membership. Go and tell them what they do and don't teach.

    This doesn't mean their style can't be called "Machida Karate"--just that they place "Machida Karate" within JKA Shotokan...until and unless THEY decide otherwise.

    Given all the individuals who, with little justification, break off and found their own "styles", it's interesting that the Machidas--with more cause to do so legitimately--have not chosen this path.

    It may be that they consider their Karate "the real deal". Given the two brothers' fighting records...
  3. crappler is offline
    crappler's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 9:47pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze View Post
    It did make sense, because the fundamental differences to JJJ were already introduced by Judo (i.e. aliveness).

    The Gracies changed the focus, which arguably led to BJJ being what it is today true, although not because they're Brazilian (Judo is still more popular in Brazil than BJJ, so it obviously didn't magically morph of its own accord).

    So your hypothesis is wrong on two counts, moron.

    You're so close as well, the environment in which a martial art is practised does affect how it develops, but it has nothing to do with country or culture...
    I love this website. It's like arguments are sparring and it doesn't matter whether you just throw garbage at people or not, they always feel like they scored on you because there are words on the page. Get it straight, the martial arts, wherever they go, are affected by the people and the cultures through which they are filtered. Brazil has one of the highest murder rates in the world, in one study being fourth from the top. It's no secret that a violent society might give rise to a new take on an old martial art. And it's not secret that individuals like Machida, or the Gracie's can interpret what they see. You are obviously one of those individuals who goes around making his own definitions, and then saying "ah, see, I'm right."

    Save it, there are people who do it better than you.
  4. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Toronto
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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 10:00pm

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     Style: Improv comedy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    All Machida really proves is that certain TMA's when trained with aliveness and practicality in mind can be made effective and keep their distinct "flavor"
  5. PimpDawg is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 10:30pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I did some karate in Brazil when I was very young. I remember it being way different than what you see here in the US. First, we hit each other - quite hard. Second, fights broke out all the time. Brazil is a violent place - fighting and killing happen quite a bit. It's full of people who are more than willing to ask the question "what happens when we try this in a real fight". That's how BJJ changed judo, and how karate there is different than karate here. Send 100 shaolin monks into brazil and the Kung Fu that will come out 10 years later will be vastly different than what you see here in the US. Because fights will break out, people will use their kung fu for fighting, and will change the Kung Fu until it works.

    This comes at a cost - Brazil's murder rate is one of the highest in the world.
  6. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 10:41pm

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     Style: Improv comedy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    umm yea Brazil?
  7. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2009 11:15pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Odacon View Post
    Where do you train and what is the name of your instructor?
    Who is your daddy & what does he do?
  8. Odacon is offline
    Odacon's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 11:13am

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     Style: Bits and pieces

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
    Who is your daddy & what does he do?
    If I had a penny for every karateka who said, "my place has the real", etc. I'd have bus fare into town, and if I had a penny for every one who got defensive and snarky when asked where they train, I'd have bus fare home. I wouldn't have much change for every time someone thought some of their business was over here, so thanks for the addition.
  9. Matt Phillips is offline
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    May 2002
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 11:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PimpDawg View Post
    I did some karate in Brazil when I was very young. I remember it being way different than what you see here in the US. First, we hit each other - quite hard. Second, fights broke out all the time. Brazil is a violent place - fighting and killing happen quite a bit. It's full of people who are more than willing to ask the question "what happens when we try this in a real fight". That's how BJJ changed judo, and how karate there is different than karate here. Send 100 shaolin monks into brazil and the Kung Fu that will come out 10 years later will be vastly different than what you see here in the US. Because fights will break out, people will use their kung fu for fighting, and will change the Kung Fu until it works.

    This comes at a cost - Brazil's murder rate is one of the highest in the world.
    Still, there were many other schools of Karate in Brazil that participated in Vale Tudo, Heroes of the Ring, etc. Machida can work his Shotokan game because he has his bases covered (MT, BJJ, Catch). I suspect an Aikidoka with a background in MT and BJJ could also work his game in MMA too. If he could bring himself to initiate, that is.
  10. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2009 11:34am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Odacon View Post
    If I had a penny for every karateka who said, "my place has the real", etc. I'd have bus fare into town, and if I had a penny for every one who got defensive and snarky when asked where they train, I'd have bus fare home. I wouldn't have much change for every time someone thought some of their business was over here, so thanks for the addition.
    Are you seriously denying that Kyokushin kaikan is an effective stand-up art? Because this guy isn't saying he trains shotokan.
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