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  1. Kentucky Fried Chokin is offline
    Kentucky Fried Chokin's Avatar

    Portrait of a BJJer as a Young Man

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2008 8:07pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf
    The fact is he BEAT Shogun, who by most was ranked #1 in the world at 205. Forrest requested that fight too. When a fighter requests to fight the best in the world and wins, he deserves to be repaid for it. He also, damn near, and in my (and many other people's opinions) did beat Tito. He was beating Jardine soundly until he made a sloppy mistake. He's looked nothing short of fantastic in EVERY other fight in the UFC. I can see the argument that there may be someone else that should get a title shot, but I don't think a sound argument can be made that he shouldn't get one.
    Oh, I know Shogun was ranked #1 in the world, I was just saying that the Shogun that fought Forest didn't look like the Shogun of old that dominated fighters back in Pride. I understand what you're saying and I agree, but if you're going to complain about someone getting a fast track to a title shot in the first place why not complain about Werdum or Forest? Why did Forest get first crack at Shogun anyway? Just because he asker for it? They could have given put Shogun against someone much more deserving than Forest, expecially since, as you noted, he was ranked #1 in the world.
  2. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2008 8:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Forrest got the crack because zuffa and everyone else thought he'd get slaughtered, which would impress the fans and make Shogun instantly recognizable as the guy who reenacted the prison rape scene of American History X, starring Forrest Griffin as Ed Norton.

    Is it possible that Shogun looked bad because Forrest is good?
  3. Tenebrous is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2008 8:37pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega's Bitch
    I think the most blatant offence in this regard is the fact that Chuck Liddell has never been called for thumbing/fingering.
    You can't fault him for what he does at the after party.
    I'm picturing you drooling onto the keyboard as you type, one eye rotating independent of the other as your hands mash the keys. - Sophist
  4. Kentucky Fried Chokin is offline
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    Portrait of a BJJer as a Young Man

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2008 8:43pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Is it possible that Shogun looked bad because Forrest is good?
    I'm not denying that Forest is good, I just think there are other guys that are better.
  5. Wolf is offline
    Wolf's Avatar

    T3h R34l Gangnam Style!

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2008 8:47pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    we'll definitely see at the end of TUF
  6. Jadonblade is offline
    Jadonblade's Avatar

    Hoo Ha!

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    england
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2008 9:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: San Da, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sambosteve
    Just to clarify guys, I did not mean to say anyone was fixing fights. I was just pointing out that not all UFC judging, etc is independently run by commissions like in the states. I am sure Roberts is a good man...that is not what I was pointing out. I am pointing out that, like mentioned, the UFC is entertainment and there is huge pressure to go this way or that way in scoring a fight. Generally, I don't have problems with the judging, but there have been occassions where the decisions are obviously wrong and in favor of the intended entertainment value. The Hamill v Bisping fight was an example of that.

    In the end, I don't think it is a problem with the 10-point system. I think it is the fact that some judges don't know what they are watching...or lean a certain way in their understanding/valuing of technique (standing vs grappling). In the end, anytime a decision has to be made, there will be questions. There is never going to be an objective criteria...except a sub or KO.
    This made me think, what credentials do the judges require or normaly have?.
  7. Robot Jesus is offline
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    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2008 9:51pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    a robe and a white wig?
  8. ShrekBJJ is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2008 4:19am


     Style: BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And a gavel, don't forget the gavel.

    SamboSteve: Fair enough, I take your point and agree. It is hard for a refree, judge etc. to go against the wave of expectation/popular opinion wen it's a close call. A jury is kept away from the media coverage of a trial so they are not swayed by what the press reports but a fight judge/ref is constantly exposed to the "propoganda" from for examle the UFC. Using the Hammill Bisping fight as an example, if you're constantly told Bisping has better stand up you'll believe it and once you believe someone's better you'll see things that might not be there.

    So should we treat fight judges like jurors?

    I don't like the ten point must system becasue there's too much impact from calling a round wrong. In a 12 round boxing match one tight round that is called the wrong way is less likely to alter teh outcome than one miss called round in a 3 round MMA contest.
  9. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2008 7:13am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ShrekBJJ
    And a gavel, don't forget the gavel.

    SamboSteve: Fair enough, I take your point and agree. It is hard for a refree, judge etc. to go against the wave of expectation/popular opinion wen it's a close call. A jury is kept away from the media coverage of a trial so they are not swayed by what the press reports but a fight judge/ref is constantly exposed to the "propoganda" from for examle the UFC. Using the Hammill Bisping fight as an example, if you're constantly told Bisping has better stand up you'll believe it and once you believe someone's better you'll see things that might not be there.

    So should we treat fight judges like jurors?

    I don't like the ten point must system becasue there's too much impact from calling a round wrong. In a 12 round boxing match one tight round that is called the wrong way is less likely to alter teh outcome than one miss called round in a 3 round MMA contest.
    I kind of agree with you in regard to scoring. I have always thought all fights should be five rounds, not three. I love how MMA pundits like to brag that it is less violent than boxing for example, but we don't let our guys go for more than three rounds. If boxers can go 6, 8, 10,12 rounds, MMA guys can do 5. They already do for belts. 5 round bouts would lessen the problem of an occassional close or miscalled round. Make titles 6 rounds.
  10. Cuchulain is offline

    Keeping you safe from Mongolians

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2008 7:34am


     Style: Sanda/Taijiquan *Hiatus*

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sambosteve
    I kind of agree with you in regard to scoring. I have always thought all fights should be five rounds, not three. I love how MMA pundits like to brag that it is less violent than boxing for example, but we don't let our guys go for more than three rounds. If boxers can go 6, 8, 10,12 rounds, MMA guys can do 5. They already do for belts. 5 round bouts would lessen the problem of an occassional close or miscalled round. Make titles 6 rounds.
    5 rounds would make for much slower paced fights. I think 3 is good.
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