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  1. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/31/2008 7:04pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Didn't Paladin Press handle Ashida Kim's ninja mind control books?

    Tangent: Why do ninjas (who're supposed to be secretive) seem to be publishing more and more books releasing their so-called secret magical techniques into the public? Doesn't that make them ninja-traitors or something?
  2. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    1/31/2008 7:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TehDeadlyDimMak
    Didn't Paladin Press handle Ashida Kim's ninja mind control books?

    Tangent: Why do ninjas (who're supposed to be secretive) seem to be publishing more and more books releasing their so-called secret magical techniques into the public? Doesn't that make them ninja-traitors or something?

    Shhhhh. Shut up man, its a secret!
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  3. BumFu is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/31/2008 7:07pm


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quinn is one of the least BS reality fighting guys. He moderated a forum I used to lurk and said some things that made me wonder why he was part of the RBSD, big rubber suit training crowd. Here are a few bits of advice he gave to the TMA crowd on his forum

    -The best way to KO someone is to throw his head into an immovable object (ground, wall), not punching him. Quinn recommended learning Judo for this reason.

    -Everyone should learn to box because few Asian Martial Arts stylists could fight a boxer because of boxing’s better training methods

    -There is no fighting value in forms

    -In a fight, having “perfect intent is more important than perfect technique”—I interpret that as "being tough & tenacious is your best weapon"

    -Even the street crowd should study BJJ to learn some basic grappling for self-defense

    -Shooting someone won’t always stop them, so don’t have the conceit to think your punch/kick will

    -Of all the bar fights he saw, few were decided by better fighting technique, but by aggression and surprise. Those few bar brawls whose outcome was determined by technique were a boxer picking a bar-brawler apart.

    -When an unruly bar patron took a karate stance he breathed a sigh of relief. When a potential opponent took up a boxing stance he got worried.

    Almost sounds like what you hear on Bullshido. His training course seemed a bit off to me—like $1K to fight guys in those big rubber suits so that you can get used to an adrenaline rush? Not useless, but learning awareness & a little adrenaline probably isn’t something you need to pay that much to do.

    That his Judo lacked a great ground game is not surprising. He probably wrote that book before MMA became popular and Judo started practicing more on the ground. That there may not be a perfect translation of Japanese Judo terminology into English may be the reason for the misspellings in the book. As they say something is always lost in translation.

    That he advocated Aikido cancels out at least half the good things he ever said or did.
    Last edited by BumFu; 1/31/2008 9:04pm at .
  4. MJ Dougherty is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/31/2008 7:10pm


     Style: Ju-Jitsu, Self-Defence

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you really think that ninjas publish their REAL techniques?

    It's all part of their deception strategy.
  5. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/31/2008 8:04pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BumFu
    That he advocated Aikido cancels out at least half the good things he ever said or did.
    Like the Judo in question his advocacy of Aikido was very specific and not for Aikido as a whole and BTW he is right. Here is what I remember of his argument. He was saying that Sankyo was great for taking somoene out of a bar. Sankyo happens to be a great technique for controlling somoene intent on taking your head off provided you are physically strong enough (Peyton said do much as well).

    In Sankyo when applied the way Peyton advocated you get to the guys side and suprise the guy with the technique. You wind up with his arm locked, elbow up, him on his toes and perhaps most important.... you are at his side so he cannot take a swipe at you. You can if he struggles pound his head into something (sound familiar?) and you have a pain reaction because you caught him by suprise.

    It has been my experience as a bouncer and talking to a couple of cops in Oakland that Akikido has a certain irony that permiates the art.... namely some of the wrist locks tend to work really well if you muscle them. It is funny because you are discounting the whole set up that makes the lock Aikido like and just clamping it on. Shihon Nage does not work as well this way because it depends way to much on the set up to execute.

    In general I would say that Peyton has a limited but good message that he gets across. He is definitely the most realistic guy I have met of the suite and boot crowd.... frankly Bill Kipp's claims on thsi forum were imo ridiculous by comparison (for example). Peyton tends to use a few techniques from a few arts and emphasize them and guess what? this is what a lot of the old school crowd did. You get really good at a few techniques and you can be hard to beat.
  6. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2008 12:06am

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yonko is still one of my favorite trick techniques on unsuspecting and mostly compliant people.

    AIKIDO RULZ!@
  7. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2008 9:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BumFu
    -The best way to KO someone is to throw his head into an immovable object (ground, wall), not punching him. Quinn recommended learning Judo for this reason.

    -Shooting someone won’t always stop them, so don’t have the conceit to think your punch/kick will

    -When an unruly bar patron took a karate stance he breathed a sigh of relief. When a potential opponent took up a boxing stance he got worried.
    Wow, the ones quoted above are friggen gold. We need to get this guy over here.
  8. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2008 10:57am

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Haha You guys can be such wise asses (said with affection)!

    Yes..... Peyton says some things that are a little on the order of being "self evident" But I can tell you this, as somoene who did not study with the guy and who does not have an agenda to magnify his accomplishments.... When I started bouncing years ago and by the time I had stopped, I had a very different understanding of martial arts techniques and their value. Peyton's conclusions are slightly different than mine ( I bounced for about 10 years) but for unscientific purposes they are identical. Before Peyton people didn't do a realistic study like this in any real detail, that I am aware of.

    Yeah you had military studies, but for a guy who was going to put himself in harm's way in civilian conflict zones, there was precious little info! Make no mistake about it either... certain types of night spots are extremely dangerous. Thats a fact. People get fucked up in bar fights, shot and maimed for life sometimes. I think that Peyton got in the habit of just being nonplussed about his findings, its his style... so you may well hear things like, "when you take a beer bottle to a man's head it is easier to get him out of an establishment" haha ( I am making this quote up).

    My only agenda is that I wish I had heard of, or read guys like Geoff Thompson and Quinn when I was a handsome lad of twenty starting my own martial arts for hire as a bouncer career. I made it out in one piece because of guys that looked and acted like Peyton, even if they were not martial artists.


    BTW for what it is worth here is what I found out about martial arts and bar fights. In the mid eighties to early ninities, in a wide range of establishments (Disco's all the way up to the DNA Lounge here in San Francisco) approximately half of people who talk to the bouncer, are regulars, are picking up chicks will claim to be proficient in a martial art of some sort or another. Claims range from "I studied _(fill inthe blanks) when I was a kid" to
    the guys who would come up to me (knowing I was a martial artist) and say "Yo we ought to spar some time" These guys always had an excuse when "some time" came around of course.

    Of half of those people when they got into it approximately half of them actually made an effort to apply a martial arts technique during a fight. The rest might take a stance and then pretty much fought like an untrained fighter. Of the half who made an effort to use a technique half of these guys did so using the element of suprise. Generally when they did so they got what I call a "status win." I.e. they bloodied a nose, or otherwise created a fairly spectacular looking injury. Most of these situations resolved because though the injury looked spectacular it was not serious. At that point the fight being broken up the guy with the bloody noise generally wanted to get even and the guy who inflicted the injury would want to make up..... nine times out of ten I would buy them both a drink and they would become friends, problem solved.

    Of the rest who used a technique: I have seen only a handful of people use a martial arts technique properly in a fight. When applied the martial arts worked properly, but only a very few had the training to pull it off.
  9. sempaiman is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2008 12:55pm


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387
    Of the rest who used a technique: I have seen only a handful of people use a martial arts technique properly in a fight. When applied the martial arts worked properly, but only a very few had the training to pull it off.
    ...thats because they don't have a compliant opponent.
  10. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2008 2:03pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sempaiman
    ...thats because they don't have a compliant opponent.

    I know thats the way people feel around here. Sometimes that is true but there are other things as well. First off, you have to be comfortable enough to use the technique under pressure. You have to be good enough technically, and you have to understand your art well enough to have the confidance to use it. Most people I saw were simply not good enough technically and not confidant.

    Compliance is not such an issue with hitting a guy. Whether you are compliant or not my leg is coming towards your head haha. A good karate guy in Baltimore in those days could break somoene up in less than a few seconds. On the other hand I can say as somoene who, at the time didn't know a lot of Ju Jutsu, but knows a lot now, that on several occasions when I broke a fight up and when I had to grab a guy, if I came up to put a wrist lock on him and he pulled his hand back, I definitely would not grab his wrist! I would inevitably grab the throat, choke him out and/or give a body shot.
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