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  1. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2003 12:07am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it's disgusting that people can't respond to these thread without personal insults, snarl words and flame-baiting.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  2. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2003 12:33am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is nothing worse than snarl words.
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  3. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2003 8:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Junior seau of the san diego chargers does HIT, the washington redskins have done HIT for a very long time. Trple H of the WWE uses HIT.
    And as for the genetics thing, yes, of course, genetics is VERY important, no doubt, but if genetic "freaks" like Mentzer and Yates, and Labrada, etc. advocate LESS training and MORE intensity, maybe they are on to something. I know that with the classical "volume" approuch I would overtrain in a matter of weeks. I have made my best gains in strength and size using the principles of High Intnesity. But that is just me :)
    As for training as a "powerlifter", that is where I will probably end up working out as, when I get to the point that I am happy with my muscle size.
    I think it was Docther or Wastrel, that mentioned training like a football player, ie: explosive, short bursts of energy, and I tend to agree from a MA and comabt stand point, but I am not stre about a NHB competition point of view, I would think you need more of an endurance/boxer like regime, no?
  4. Chudo is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2003 10:42am


     Style: Chu-Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    High intensity low volume. I completely agree.

    Intensity doesn't come real easy to alot of people though. It has to be learned over time. I can now work out a muscle group better and quicker than I ever could when I was younger.

    Generating intensity and eduring the "burn" are two key elements to muscle growth.

    Arnold Schwarzenegger himself said that if he could go back and do one thing differently in his training he would train less and rest more.

    Train hard then get out of the gym.
  5. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2003 11:25am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it was Docther or Wastrel, that mentioned training like a football player, ie: explosive, short bursts of energy, and I tend to agree from a MA and comabt stand point, but I am not stre about a NHB competition point of view, I would think you need more of an endurance/boxer like regime, no?


    was me, frankly I think boxers probably should work out that way
  6. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2003 11:28am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    uhh...don't know why that posted when it did.

    what I was going to say was that it would seem to me that a boxer/nhb athlete would want to train that way as well. Three rounds with break in between, short bouts of intense action during the round. Seems rather analagous to me.
  7. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2003 11:29am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have to agree, I also think road work is redundant.
  8. Djimbe is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/15/2003 3:17am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by keinhaar
    Which is developing strength across joint functions unrelated to how it was developed, since, in a sport, you'll neccesarily be moving in ways dissimilar to the lifts which developed said strength. Which is what ya want.
    Across Joints , NOT across Joints , its COMPLETELEY AND UTTERLY IRRELEVANT to this Discussion . You can get the SAME EXACT EFFECT from a Biceps Curl as you can From a Squat as you can get from a Front Raise as you can get from a Snatch by using the same type of Lifting Scheme (95% of 1rm to failure - e.g. 3-5 reps)

    And I would just like to Point out that if youre even MILDLY putting any Effort into it , you can simulate ANY motion in the Gym that your Body can Do , with as much Resistance as you will ever need , providing that the gym has Decent gear Handy . I KNOW this , because Ive done nearly every movement in every one of My Forms with Weight Resistance , so I dont know why you would think that you COULDNT , but thats not really what is being talked about here .

    It DOESNT MATTER if the motions are the same , so long as the Lifting Programme makes the MUSLES THEMSELVES use more Motor Units Harder (to Failure) , then they will Contract more Explosively/Faster and harder after Rest/Recovery . Im not now , nor have I ever been talkling abou the use of the CNS to increase Task-Specific Skill . Just the amount of "OOMPH" that you do ANY Task with . (Id Swear that Ive said this before)


    Other than *how* the strength was developed, I'm still confused as to how you can tell the difference between those who say they train for strength and those who train for size when all is said and done...if both, are in fact, stronger.

    Why does any Outside Oberver need to be able to "Tell The Diffference" ? The Idea is to find the BEST WAY for the Trainer themself to find the most Strength that THEY CAN get out of THEIR bodies . Why must you keep throwing in these Wierd Red Herrings ? What difference does it make if someone Else has better Genetics ? The way to Bring YOUR Genetis as far into the game as possible is still the same . you may NOT get as much out of it as the next guy , SO WHAT ? I may never drive a Sub Compact Car without ripping the Front Seat out first , or be able to be full off of ONE "Value Meal" at a burger Joint , either , but whats that got to do with the fact that its Still relatively economical Transportation , or cheap , fast food ? An Endomorph may not end up with the EXACT same Musculature at the end of the day as an Ecxtomorph , but its going to be the damndest he can do to advance himself in the needs of his chosen Activities either way .

    You see , its not a "Compare Guy1 to Guy2" sort of thing . Its "Compare Guy1 under Stimulus1 to Guy1 under stimulus2" .


    I realize there are better ways than others to do so, but you're saying there's some inherent difference in how the muscle contracts *after the fact* in *unrelated* activities as a RESULT of someone who developed their strength with 15 rep squats in a single set as opposed to 5 reps and multiple sets.

    Do you take biopsies or something?
    While you very well COULD take Biopsies (its been done) thats not needed . all you need is enough Decent Training Journals , and the ability of the Lifter to do the Lifts of the last Entries .

    That'd suck, since the fibers you want to fatigue are those which are generally last to be recruited.
    ONLY if you were VOLUME TRAINING would this be the truth . The by Changing what rep range we Fail in we change what order the Muscle Fiobre types are Recruited , and IF some Types are even Recruited at ALL . THAT is why I told you to Digest this :

    http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/shane6.htm

    And look at the Reference Materials , heck , you could even Email Shane , hes a game sod .

    It'd behoove one to make sure that doesn't happen if the goal is to maximize intensity.
    Seee above . Oh , and you forgot that Recruiting ALL your Motor units DOES train them to deliver more "Punch" to ANY Contraction (As per Previous Post) and that the best way to GET that to happen recruits little to NO fibre Types of any kind .

    Before you continue with any barbed remarks, remember the point here is to disagree and challenge.
    No , no its not . That is the field of the Rhetorician . Speech for the Sake of Speech , Argument for Argument's sake . Thats a Rediculous and foolhardy (not to mention Mind-Numbingly annoying) endeavour . The point is to Progress to a point of Education on the subject Mater as applies to the Needs of the Community that these Posts Reach . The Goal here FOR ME is to ACTUALLY HELP the community here , and clear up a LOT of the Bullshit about Lifting . I am Brusquely , and oftentimes Brutally Direct to this End .

    And even if the point WERE to "Disagree & Challenge" I would be Frustrated at this point by the number of Unrelated matters , Red Herrings & the like , NTM all the times that I have made Corrrections (some with Sources , some without , granted) That were completeley Ignored . Why is it that IN THIS POST I had to tell you to AGAIN Read somethign that was posted like 2 weeks ago ? You Didnt ever "Callenge" it (though it WAS Doccumented & Referenced) and yet , you argue AGAIN as if the Datum presented therin was never made available to you before in life . Thats just Ignoring anything that dosent fit in with your World View , not Disagreeing with nor Challenging it .

    If this is a chore, you might want to refrain.
    Oh , Wanting is one thing , but Again , I cant in Good Conscience have the Community here Riddled with all kinds of Old-Wives-Tales about lifting which are merely Regurgitated by people that obviously have no , or Limited experience/success in Strength Training as specificaly Relates to Fighting .

    And if if it puts your mind at ease I also, personally, follow a Mentzer-esque approach.
    In what way ? If its JUST the Periodization factor , Thats not being Discussed here , and I cant really see the Relevance .

    http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/shane6.htm
    Last edited by Djimbe; 11/15/2003 3:28am at .
  9. Djimbe is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/15/2003 3:24am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by The Wastrel
    I think it's disgusting that people can't respond to these thread without personal insults, snarl words and flame-baiting.
    IF thats so , then why not post somethign Pertinent to the Thread that dosent have whatever it is you feel those things are , in the stead of just coming off like someone trying to point out how much better he is than everyone else and like youre looking down your nose - as THAT wont solve anything , its actally a lot like Flame-Bait .
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