228206 Bullies, 4765 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 10
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. TalkShowOnMute is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    73

    Posted On:
    1/21/2008 9:24am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Santiago Shatan - Russian Jiu Jitsu, MFS/Carlson Gracie Certs?

    Allow me to make this short and sweet.

    This guy claims to be a Gracie Brown belt and a MFS Purple Belt (4 stripes).

    And this is his website
    http://mongoosegear.com/training/?p=23

    His certifications have already been viewed by my instructor and are now being forwarded to Gracie affiliates for further debunking. However, everyone to have viewed them have agreed that these documents are bogus. Take a look yourself.

    (see obviously phony certifications below)


    And the Gracie totally-different-not-at-all-the-same-certificate


    The man himself.


    "Master Instructor Santiago Shatan.

    *In 1983, the former soviet union’s “OSNAZ” group, the elite special military forces reporting directly to the KGB, commissioned 3 world class wrestlers to develop a hybrid system of martial arts, with particular focus on hand to hand assassination. This group was headed by Alimbeg Bestaev, with assistance from Aslan Khadarstev and Dzakhsorov Tauzbek.

    *Mr. Shatan is the only direct descendant of this training program that currently resides in the U.S.

    *this martial arts system is especially effective for persons with wrestling backgrounds. This system contains innovative techniques which inject some fresh alternatives into Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) applications.

    *This system is at the heart of the storyline of a new movie in production by Hollywood Producer and Actor Don Johnson. (”Miami Vice”).

    Curriculum: (now doing seminars and teaching at the Mejiro Gym L.A.)

    1. Skull & spine compression.

    2. Alternatives to traditional positional theory

    3. Submission from difficult positions"


    Last edited by TalkShowOnMute; 1/21/2008 10:08am at .
  2. sochin101 is offline
    sochin101's Avatar

    Graviora Manent

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Lincolnshire, England
    Posts
    6,887

    Posted On:
    1/21/2008 10:18am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps he could just have put graphical representations of his certificates on the web-site, maybe... to stop people using them as templates for forgery?
  3. The Badger is offline
    The Badger's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    177

    Posted On:
    1/21/2008 10:23am


     Style: inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  4. TalkShowOnMute is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    73

    Posted On:
    1/21/2008 10:36am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sochin, yes. We could give him the benefit of the doubt. However using official signatures in a representative document (of a genuine document) is shady at the least. Also, it could be forgery. However, beyond that most instructors have no problems with showing thier true certifications. My previous instructor is a great example.

    http://www.leonardoxavier.com/about/index.html
    http://www.leonardoxavier.com/about/certificate.jpg
  5. truoutlawz is offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1

    Posted On:
    3/06/2008 8:49pm


     Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    With respect to these accusations, you can verify the legitimacy of these certificates as follows:

    1. Gracie Certificate issued by certified Carlson Gracie Sr. Level 4 Instructor, Dave Kujawski. See websites:

    http://home.comcast.net/~graciejiuji...ome.html-.html.

    http://rabiddogmma.com/id44.html


    2. Miletich Certificate Issued by Certified MFS Level 3 Instructor, Dave Kujawski. See websites:

    http://www.mfs-elite.com/Certified_Instructors.htm

    http://rabiddogmma.com/id37.html

    You can contact Dave Kujawski for verification at: davek@whitecm.com.

    For more info., see

    http://www.whitecm.com/index.php?sub...ement%20Team#7
    Last edited by truoutlawz; 3/06/2008 8:52pm at .
  6. Kokujin is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Lisbon-Portugal
    Posts
    856

    Posted On:
    3/07/2008 11:11am


     Style: BJJ(blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jeez...I love it when they come up with soviets in a lab developing hand to hand systems to destroy the american imperialists! Lab coats and judo mats!
  7. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,774

    Posted On:
    3/07/2008 11:48am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have no clue as to whether Santiago Shatan is claiming bogus ranks, but note that "lab coats and judo mats" is an accurate summation of the development of Russian martial arts throughout much of the Twentieth Century. The Soviets really did have scientists (biomechancal specialists, psychologists and others) heavily involved in analyzing and developing hand to hand combat systems. The various forms of SAMBO and Systema are the best-known examples.
  8. sambosteve is offline
    sambosteve's Avatar

    Stillness is death

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,892

    Posted On:
    3/07/2008 12:08pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Regarding the soviet stuff. That story comes from the typical playbook as posted above. However, the problem is that much stuff from the old "soviet lab" days is tough to verify. I have never heard of what he describes...not that it does not exist. However, The fact that the old russian stuff has always been hard to verify has made it a magnet for frauds.

    Also, in regard to the MFS site posted above, I believe that is old and out of date.
    Here is the most recent site, which does not list this guy as an affiliate:
    http://www.mfselite.com/

    Kujawski had a serious falling out with pat and is no longer affiaited with him. He was smearing Pat all over the place...and still trying to use the MFS name apparently. Pat posted on this thread (as did kujawski via kempofist) and noted that there was a lawsuit with kujawski and could not comment till it was over. Here is a thread about that:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...light=kujawski

    however, it looks like the date on the posted cert was from before the falling out bewteen Pat and Kujawski...

    It is strange that the 2 certs look like they are from the same template though.
    Last edited by sambosteve; 3/07/2008 12:11pm at .
  9. PCH is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    49

    Posted On:
    3/07/2008 3:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ / JJJ / Boxing / RBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "1. Gracie Certificate issued by certified Carlson Gracie Sr. Level 4 Instructor, Dave Kujawski."


    LOL!

    I can assure you: there is no such thing as a "level 4 instructor " under Carlson Gracie Sr (nor under Junior).


    These fake certificates are SOOO bad, I'm not sure they even warrant investigation.
    Last edited by PCH; 3/07/2008 3:58pm at .
  10. Kokujin is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Lisbon-Portugal
    Posts
    856

    Posted On:
    3/07/2008 7:35pm


     Style: BJJ(blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    I have no clue as to whether Santiago Shatan is claiming bogus ranks, but note that "lab coats and judo mats" is an accurate summation of the development of Russian martial arts throughout much of the Twentieth Century. The Soviets really did have scientists (biomechancal specialists, psychologists and others) heavily involved in analyzing and developing hand to hand combat systems. The various forms of SAMBO and Systema are the best-known examples.
    Oh, I believe in soviet's "lab coats and mats" aproach to the russian martial arts. We're talking about the same guys that were trying to develop mind control techniques and such, so that doesn't yank my chain in no way. But being that they lived half a century behind a iron curtain, people, and russian people specially, can say whatever they want and no one outside Russia or even in Russia can confirm or deny! For instance, I can say my dad was trained by russian special forces in guerrila warfare...truth or false?:grommit:

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.