Forest City, NC: Ray Rice - 8th degree Shotokan Karate Black Belt?

**sochin101** · Posted On: 1/12/2009 8:25am

1Nexus1, greetings.
I notice you have the same style in your style field as Brandon, Rice's son.
They both say Shotkan.
Now, is this an art specific to Ray Rice, or have you both made the same spelling error?

**templar_knight** · Posted On: 1/12/2009 10:06am

And what the school did back then was nothing like MMA...there is a HUGE difference between blended styles of martial arts and what we know as Mixed Martial Arts..

good grief the UFC didnt hit until 1993 and look at the fighters then...it was pathetic, save for a couple of fighters..and BJJ didnt get started in america until..when 1986 or so?

Thats when it was JUST getting started here..and one thing Rorion Gracie said he noticed when he came to America...was the complete ignorance of ground fighting in americans..

and to be honest...if you dont train thouroughly in either BJJ, Judo with strong newaza, or submission wrestling...you're gonna be a flat out idiot on the ground...which is why...like I said before...M.C. students who had been training BJJ and MMA for like a month or 2, could wipe out MOST of the schools blackbelts..

ofcoruse alot of that had to do with most of the folks there being lazy and not wanting to do anything but look flashy once in a while..no one wantedto work on self defense or full contact..or anything but a kata or 2 and maybe some jump kicks.. No one wanted to train for the real deal...

Alot of that had nothing to do with the school just people in general...everyone wanted to wear the belt but not have to do anything to earn it or prove it...although the system itself was lacking in grappling...but it didnt have to be..like I said before..politics...

I am very aware of the origins of Gracie JiuJitsu..yes I am aware it was derived from pre WWII Judo...which, during the american occupation of japan..was watered down to a sport..I guess the Americans thought it was too dangerous.. Trust me I did my homework years ago...

When the Judo legend Masahiko Kimura defeated Helio Gracie, Kimora stated that Gracie JiuJitsu was nearly indentical to pre WWII Judo...

**1Nexus1** · Posted On: 1/12/2009 8:52pm

Sochin101...no I just typed it too fast I guess...a fault I often have. Actually, I have 1st dan in Shotokan from a real Shotokan school, though I did start my training at Ray's..a blended school since I am not allowed to say that it was an mma before the acronym was coined . mixed...blended...just rhetoric I think. Judo now for almost a year...I have spent considerable time in Japanese Jui Jitsu...aikido...and Korean Tae Kwon do...I boxed out of Sugar Ray Leonard's Gym in Silver Springs Maryland for five years in my youth. This week, I start (actual;ly continue) taking Bjj from a Black Belt in the style. I geuss that sums it up.

Templar...The home work statement was not for you...sorry I offended you. I don't know your situation or anything, but I didn't think we had a problem. We know each other, it is easy to geuss who I am. The UFC was not the start by any stretch...I am old enough, well traveled enough, and involved enough to know that for sure. It is certainly true that things have changed significantly (for the better I may add) but don't get too caught up in definitions of words...they change to. Ray truly did have a "Blended Style" back when that wasn't cool. Actually, he was kind of different from all the traditional schools in that respect. Although, he did teach Shotokan Kata for ranking purpose, he made no attempt to hide the fact that there were several other styles included...that is back in the late 70's and early 80's (that is my first point of reference with him). Also, I did identify the loss of sincerity in the students when I was there last year. I also believe you were part of the conversations when I pointed that out to him and he agreed. I don't understand what happened. By the way, pre WWII Judo is very alive and well and still taught as Judo...especially in the Korean Culture. That truly is another story in itself although. Can two months of BJJ training defeat any of the current BB...most I would assume. But certainly not from those from 20 years ago. Yet strictly on the mat...probably then, althougjh. I'm not arrogant enough to say that did not happen to me when I first started BJJ with M.C. But, even he knew enough to tell his boys it was going to be different when we stood up, and it was...no arrogance, just truth. Although, if it had been all out and one of them were to shoot and I missed the parry... Oh well, humble pie is a good teacher. It is very different for me now...I realized my weakness and am training to correct that. I don't get it about the self defence either....that was paramount in our training back then. Again, I don't know what happened. I don't know how it was by the time M>C> got there ( i had made 1st brown by that time and moved back to DC, M>C> went to the Marines during that time and we lost contact for awhile). But we did full contact once a week, self defense once a week (including standing grappling and throwing techniques--no mats), drills twice a week, optional all out training on Saturday, I had a key and often brought others in and we would train, and we also had a bare knuckle fight club outside of the DOJO...Ray said we couldn't do it in the school anymore for legal reasons. We had several guys that wrestled and two guys from the Army Special Forces. So as far as I can see, it has changed very much...but who is to blame. We as students had a lot of input on what went on. No one was lazy or afraid of getting hit...hell, we had blood often...I won my first full contact fight with a broken nose I received at the school which had been aggravated in our fight club. By the way where do you have to drive to for Judo in your area...i'm not aware of any local BB in Judo. Just asking. Also, who is the local BB in BJJ, I'm not aware of him either. I know M>C> had to travel a little ways...at least I think that is what he told me. Do tell me more about what you perceived happening... I did have a few conversations with M>C> about a variety of issues as I did with Ray as well. It was all very interesting and I guess I did form a few opinions. But, that is enough for now. Peace my friend. Tell Mike I said Hello, please.

**templar_knight** · Posted On: 1/12/2009 9:49pm

Actually after M.C. started the BJJ class a few years ago, he introduced us to a BJJ and combat hapkido blackbelt who also trained extensively in MMA, muay thai, judo, boxing, etc. and had several MMA fights back before the sport was as big as it is now...when M.C. had his back surgery this guy took over the class for a while..in al honesty, and mike admitted this himself, the guy was better than mike..not that mike isnt good....he is..both gave me alot of good info..but anyways the guy goes to different MMA/BJJ camps in the general area, spartanburg, boiling springs..and harris gym at the old harris school is where the local rutherford county MMA boys hang out...awesome place to train, good boxers, muay thai, and BJJ guys there..

I havent seen mike in almost a year, it was last february when I left...I roll with some of the guys at harris gym off and on...havent been there in a few months either, trying to let some old injuries heal...

I guess the main thing I noticed was that..it seemed like no one wanted to move on, advance in their training, the instruction, and the curriculum..I mean anyone can look around and see that sport karate is dying..yet Ray didnt seem like he wanted to embrace anything else..I mean you can look around, and see that the best way to compete and attract new students in todays culture, is by enhancing the school to have a legit BJJ and muay thai program, get some MMA instructors in there, maybe some yoga classes for older folks or for people that just dont want a combat art..but I mean its like he was dead set on convincing people that what he taught was the absolute best out there under any circumstances, in any condition, it was flawless, and he could beat anybody and nothing could compare to his system..and its not true..I mean sure there are some good things you can learn and you can probably learn to defend yourself against an untrained attacker..but still...why settle? I mean you have to evolve you have to change, you have to stay up to date..you cant fight someone now lke you could in the '70's...its not gonna work...and any system that is 80% kata is deeply flawed from the start...why waste all of that precious time on something that is basically useless...when it could be spent on self defense or randori or just pure raw technique training...? I get that people say its about developing your inner self, I get that...but how? And to make a point, the Samurai empty hand style was JuJitsu, which was pretty much like grappling, Judo, kenpo, aikido, along with weapon arts like kenjutsu, all together..then over time jujitsu split up into various styles...but in Jujitsu there was no empty hand kata like in karate and TKD and related styles...Kata was a partner exercise, pretty much prearranged self defense...

I mean our self defense was all one step at a time, prearranged...thats what kata is in JuJitsu/Judo...and in Jujitsu, self defense is suprise attacks/randori against a live resisting opponent..not some 15 year old kid assisting, and going along with his partner just so the moves would work or to make an instructor look good...

**sochin101** · Posted On: 1/13/2009 2:54am

Originally Posted by 1Nexus1

Sochin101...no I just typed it too fast I guess...a fault I often have.

No worries.
I was suspicious in case you were Brandon trying to establish credibility a different way.
The mis-spelling on both accounts caught my eye, that's all.

**crumpy** · Posted On: 1/13/2009 2:48pm

Originally Posted by 1Nexus1

I trained under Ray Rice from 1981 to 1987 (with a break in between). Although I did not receive my BB from him, I did through another. Boxing and kick boxing have been a part of my life as well--which started under Ray as well. Currently, I train under a Korean master of Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, and Judo (By the way, Judo is the father of BJJ--do your home work-to whom this applies). He is the real deal much like Ray. Unfortunately, a fair portion of my past years have been turbulent. But let me back up a minute before I make my next few statements. At the Ray Rice School of Martial arts (27 years ago), we were training in what is now called MMA, yet, teaching shotokan Kata for ranking purpose. There was also included Aikido, Tae Kwon DO, Kendo, and a variety of other styles including Japenese weopons. No we did not spend much time rolling on the mat--our training philosophy was to put people there and prepare for the next guy if any. Not get kicked by his buddy when you are on the ground. Now I am not dissing ground fighting--I am currently doing it now. But, that is just the truth of the entire matter. I did become a well rounded fighter by starting my training under him. Now regarding the turbulence. My life took me many places. Now I assure you, the foundation of what I learned did in fact work. I am a white man who lives in S.E. DC--that offeres problems and/or opportunity. Also, do you think underground fighting is a new phenomenon? Despite the fact that demonstrations are, well, planned--No rocket science there--they are in fact marketing tools as well as just plain fun for the people observing. So yes, you do put spin on it. And for the record, Ray did in fact do "Demonstration Fights" as they were and still are affirmed to be--not dives...just read the card. As to his claims and authenticity in ranking...I honestly can attest to the 4th Dan, but we lost contact for a while and I honestly don't know about 5 through 8 Dan. What I can attest to as well, is the years of struggles the man went through, that a cowardly arsonist burned his school down, me getting jumped by students from a competing school and my subduing them fairly easily (when I was much younger), the respect and honor and humility that was taught, and I can go on. Ray's faith surely allows him the knowledge of his imperfections, so don't go there please. So if you are going to spend your time stabbing someone in the back, back biting, or just joining in on a gossip train, MAN, get a life. Surely there is more to do for you than belittle someone. Now let me leave you with this: "You may complain about the speck of saw dust in his eye, but what about the plank in your eye."

SE isn't all bad. The Navy Yard area have some 5k a month apartments. If you live across the river in SE no martial art in the world can defend you because they don't throw down with fist they just shoot you.

**1Nexus1** · Posted On: 1/13/2009 9:00pm

Crumpy: It is true you better own a fire arm or two in SE. But, not everyone ther owns one...that is a stereotype...If they are are drug dealing gangster, well my bet would be on the 9mm (or in my case--7mm, 10 mm, and .223 with a few gauged guns). I believe the District was an experiment to prove that gun control does not work. My area is near Benning and Minesota ( Near Naylor Pl)...The Yards and nice area is across the the River. What I mean by opportunity is the competition in local schools and boxing rings are good. I try to cary my self in a respectfull amnner and seldom have street issues...besides, everybody in my neighborhood knows me and some of them grew up with me. Plus it is an anomaly that I grew up there and live there off and on in the first place...so as my friends joke with me--those that don't know me think I'm a cop or just plain crazy. Also, I'm the only one in my neighborhood that hunts, so when people see me bring a deer, boar, or bear to my butcher friends house for dressing, they look at me like I am insane...just funny i guess.

Sochin101: No offence taken and I apolagize for my error.

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 1/14/2009 4:02am

ANYWAY:

Any proof or additional info that Ray Rice is an 8th degree Shorokan Karate black belt, or not?

- And please use paragraphs in your answers.

**crazydan** · Posted On: 4/28/2009 10:24pm

Hey this is Daniel i took karate from ray for about 2 or 3 years and his son is rite his credibility is 100% and if anyone want to know more e mail me at CrazDanww@yahoo.com

**kikoolol** · Posted On: 4/29/2009 11:45pm

First of all, don't necro old threads.

Since some guy decided to bump this though...

Ray Rice has been active in Martial Arts since 1971 and holds the rank of 8th Degree Black Belt and also earned belts in Shotokan, Tae Kwon Do, Kenpo, Ju-Jitsu, and Akido.

He has an 8th degree black belt AND other belts in Shotokan...

AND.

His Myspace isn't technically claiming a Shotokan 8th dan. I could be playing on semantics, but from what I've seen (mixed art, etc) it sounds like the guy made up his style and inflated his rank to sound more awesome. The Myspace blurb makes his 8th dan look separate from his rank is Shotokan, whatever it is.

Has anyone tried to message him on Myspace and find out?

Also : http://www.freescape.com/rayrice.htm

I'm not sure what this does on a dating website but anyway.

Licensed and Certified by the United States Martial Arts Association-6th Black Belt.

If I'm not mistaken, USMAA is one of these pay to play orgs. In any case, holding rank from such a nondescript org is certainly bullshit.

Also he's claiming 6th there. May be outdated.

lol @ pic with chuck norris

Anyway, you can also see that he's claiming "2 world kickboxing" championship. Quick google-fu nets this :

YouTube - Ray Rice Tri State Kickboxing Championship

It comes from this channel : http://www.youtube.com/user/RRKarate

Which looks like it's the guy's Youtube channel.

That's a far call from a world championship but at least it shows the guy DID compete in kickboxing. Dunno if it's even the final but it's a match. Can anybody confirm that this is indeed Ray Rice? (even with the horrible image quality).

Hold on - if this is kickboxing, why the **** does the ref have a gi with a black belt on?

Did I make up for the worthless bump by the smartass above? : D