"Hawk" Hardy is legit.
Originally Posted by Trills Finest
Mr. Gill, if you haven't posted on Bullshido before you opened this account, someone else was posting and claiming to be you in the thread:
Originally Posted by Trills Finest
help with finding info on Dale Gill in Port Arthur, TX - claiming 38-0 in mma
The poster claiming to be you used the name kno77642, and has the following profile:
Here are a few posts that the imposter convincingly claims to be you: here, here, here, here again, here again, and again, again, again, again, and again.
Since you claim it wasn't you, perhaps you should visit the thread that bears your name in order to clear the air.
I am new to this site so, I'm not exactly sure what "uncovering a Bullshido artist is about". However, it makes the most sense to me that a person claiming to have the professional experience that Charlie Ward does, should have to prove that they are indeed who and what they say they are, not the other way around.
Originally Posted by ADM
In fact, when someone claims to be something that they cannot definitively prove to the public, that should be an instant ground for suspicion and therefore require them to prove that they are indeed who and what they claim to be, not for the suspecting public to prove that they are not.
I dunno but, sure seems a bit backwards to me.
Charlie Ward sure does have all of the signs and symptoms of your typical military and/or martial arts BS artist. His clandestine "underground" fights in foreign countries, no-named opponents (opponents that he cannot or will not say by name), and championships in which he also does not name.
The guy is large and intimidating and appears to have successfully BS'd his way into a teaching position at the ASU Polytechnic Campus, in Mesa, AZ. That seems to be the only verifiable claim that he has made. His lengthy and brilliantly written reply email is another classic example of a liar and BS artist, as it gave you a ton of information but, nothing regarding proof of his claims. It was designed to throw the reader(s) off track and place them into his almost perfectly crafted fantasy world, and seems to have been quite effective to those who aren't ones to question, by nature.
So, after all is said and done, we are right back to square one. Mr. Ward should be the one with which the burden of proof lies upon and not the public and martial arts community. When you make a claim, you should be the one to back it up and not look to the rest of the world to prove you are not who you say you are. Scientists are required to prove that their theories are indeed facts before they are presented to the rest of the world as truth. Martial artists should be no different.
If it helps any of you out there, I was actually born in another star system, in another galaxy, light-years away from Earth. When I was beamed to this planet by my other-worldly superiors, I was reborn as a human to an Earthly mother and father and will live on this planet for another 100 years before I am beamed back to my home planet. Now, prove that I wasn't.
Last edited by mrinvisible; 4/05/2009 3:51pm at .
I was just thinking...
150 pro fights, but they're underground, that we wouldn't know about.
Doesn't sound like "pro" fights then, does it?
...>150 fights + >70 KOs, nonetheless, at least according to his bio on ASU's Sun Devil Combat Sports Program page. Here's a screenshot:
Wow, just wow. Would have never imagined someone this closely connected to ASU would have ever been under investigation, until this thread got necro'ed.
This would not still be an issue if there were something, anything at all to back up Mr. Ward's claims. Liars are especially looked down upon in the martial arts community as they undermine all of the true artists hard work, commitment, and dedication. I'd like to think that that would be obvious but, apparently not.
Maybe the thread will die off completely when there has been some truth revealed or when the mods are sick of it, one way or another.
Yeah, this has kind of piqued my interest, though, since the Polytechnic campus where he is isn't that far away, and classes are free to ASU students. Free Muay Thai classes would be awesome :)
Looking further, on any of his Myspace pages (or other ones I could find) I didn't see anything further about the "150 fights", which is kind of vague wording in the first place, much less the >70 KOs. Then again, the way it is worded in the screenshot kinda implies they were pro fights.
On the flip side, noticing I could only find it on the Sun Devil Combat Sports page, perhaps whoever created that specific page initially misinterpreted what he said? The reason this comes to mind is because if something was incorrect on an ASU page, it might not be spotted immediately, as many people/labs/groups at ASU often have their own webpages that they have more control over and update more frequently (as well as actually look at more!) Also, if something was incorrect, it wouldn't be the first time someone accidentally made an error on ASU's huge webpage.
After typing this out, now I'm really curious as to what the actual story is here. I looked at the schedule of classes, and am pretty tempted to drop by the Poly campus whenever I have some spare time.
Originally Posted by That Shy Girl
What's happnin' Shy Girl?
You have a right to be suspicious. Typically, when things don't seem to add up, there is a good reason why they don't. The outcome here can only be one of two possibilities:
1) Charlie Ward is being 100% truthful
2) Charlie Ward is not being 100% truthful
If he were being completely truthful then, it seems to me that there would have been at least some kind of hard evidence presented, for as much attention as this topic is receiving, both on this website and many others.
I'm curious, which Sun Devil Combat Sports website did you go to? Was it the ASU site or was it Mr. Ward's (The MMA Professor) site: http://www.themmaprofessor.com/sun_devil_combat_sports
Regardless, there is a reason that you were only able to find anything regrading Charlie Ward's professional record on a Sun Devils page. The ASU Combat Sports program is the only verifiable claim he has made, but nothing before that time is verifiable. So, it seems that you're not the only one who is unable to find any substantial legitimacy to Mr. Ward's claims. I guess he was pretty convincing to some people, mainly the ASU staff or else he wouldn't be teaching there. Apparently he works very hard at what he does. Unfortunately, it's looking more and more like he is full of it. Oh well.
Anyone who is considering training in MMA or Muay Thai or BJJ or whatever, should definitely do their research before they choose a place to train. Ask around about trainers that you are interested in and schedule a time to come in and watch them train. With a little smarts and some background checking, we should be able to avoid guys like Charlie Ward.
I never get people like this. 150 fights and they can't even come up with something vague? My pops got into a lot of fights when he was younger and he can damn near remember every punch thrown, and this guy can even remember "there was one fight where i took down this Muy Thai guy and elbowed him in the face so hard i broke his orbital bone and knocked him out!"
Can't they even fake it correctly?
Finally had some time to get around to actually posting this (and hopefully it will post this time instead of giving a weird database error page), though I wrote it up a few weeks ago. Better late than never, I suppose:
Okay, finally had some spare time, and I said I would post, so might as well. Read the entire thread twice (Should have before the last post! Argh!) and did some digging around. For the sake of simplicity and since the fight record was what the OP was originally wondering about, this is what I'll address in the beginning.
Here's a summary:
- Professional MMA/NHB fighter for 12 years, in the US and overseas
- Retired in 1998 but came back for two years for different challenges issued to him
- Overall MMA/NHB record of 153-5
- Of this, NHB was 89-0 with 76 KOs
- 5x world champion in the IFCQC, first winning the title in 1993 by KO
These are the pages I compiled the info from, leaving out the ones with repetitive information. I didn't find any contradictions of anything regarding the fight record anywhere, except for one page- On this page it says "NHB World Champion (1997-2000)". I have no idea how reliable the Human Archives Organization is. If it is reliable, it would directly contradict the above. If not reliable, then the HAO page is wrong.
Like many people in the thread previously did, I Googled IFCQC and came up with nothing new. In quotes, the only Google hits I got were the MMA Professor's pages in addition to the human archives page. On the ASU domain page I first looked at, I thought maybe it could be "International Federation of Close Quarter Combat" which is listed as an affiliation. However, the first hit to come up without quotes is The International Close Quarter Combat Federation.
All the other organizations listed on the above page, except for the "IFCQC" exactly, I could easily find on the web. Then again, I can think of some organizations that either have no web presence or have a very weak one, so that in and of itself doesn't prove or disprove anything.
Since I was wondering about classes anyways, I sent him a (nice, non-confrontational) email asking about the schedule and, as an aside, the lack of info about his fight record. I didn't get any new info, but he didn't contradict anything previously said. Also, I'd rather not be be rude and pry further.
Also, since I had some more time I went to a couple of classes. Regarding classes, it's a relatively small group of dedicated people, or at least that's the impression I got. (It is a nice place and they are all very nice guys there, and I'd go back more if I wasn't so busy, but that is irrelevant.) Anyway, I didn't see any huge red flags. Also, right off the bat it was really obvious from watching that some of the guys there came from wrestling and BJJ backgrounds (i.e. before I was told they indeed did). As far as people with previous striking experience that go there, I don't remember the details, but I do remember someone mentioning common mistakes that people from other MAs make there when first learning boxing specifically (for example, TKDers not keeping their hands up).
IMHO, it seems it would be hard to get away with crappy technique there, since a decent chunk of the guys come from different backgrounds and someone would surely spot it and not come back and make sure word got around.
Anyways, the bottom line is that I didn't find any evidence of BS from searching, emailing or visiting- just absence of evidence. I don't think he is BS, but then again that is just my opinion, as absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
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