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  1. #1

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    Evidence of Ueshiba winning fights?

    Aikido history often tells the story of ueshiba "winning many fights" in his youth and middle age. The only videos of ueshiba I have seen are demonstrations.
    The storys about Ueshiba's fights are all told by his students. Or are there any objective, reliable eye-witnesses that have written about this? I couldn't find any info on the internet. It seems to me that these storys are just anectotes, that you believe in if you are a follower.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aikido Bunny
    Aikido history often tells the story of ueshiba "winning many fights" in his youth and middle age. The only videos of ueshiba I have seen are demonstrations.
    The storys about Ueshiba's fights are all told by his students. Or are there any objective, reliable eye-witnesses that have written about this? I couldn't find any info on the internet. It seems to me that these storys are just anectotes, that you believe in if you are a follower.
    John Steven, in his Ueshiba's bio wrote of how M. Ueshiba fought and killed Manchurian bandits with katana in Manchuria/Manchukuo during the 30's.

    Gozo Shioda (a pre-war uchideshi) wrote in his auto-biography (Aikido Shugyo), how M. Ueshiba broke the hip of a judoka (dojo challenger) with a tsuki to the hip.

    Are you are looking for You-Tube evidence... ?

    GMW

  3. #3
    WorldWarCheese's Avatar
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    I can believe the second but unless they are bound and on their knees surrounded by troops I don't see how a guy with a katana could do much in a modern war (I know they handed them out but how successful have Banzai Charges been? I mean, really.)

    It's the same with the Judoka who beat a Bear, it seems a little farfetched and more along the legend lines (Yet in Judo it's a well known story)

  4. #4

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    Unfortunately, like so many MA's one cant help to be sceptical of someone taking on many armed bandits and being uninjured and so casual about it as not to have documented it or to have sought some form of legal protection or other easily checked frame of reference in the last century or so.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    John Steven, in his Ueshiba's bio wrote of how M. Ueshiba fought and killed Manchurian bandits with katana in Manchuria/Manchukuo during the 30's.

    Gozo Shioda (a pre-war uchideshi) wrote in his auto-biography (Aikido Shugyo), how M. Ueshiba broke the hip of a judoka (dojo challenger) with a tsuki to the hip.

    Are you are looking for You-Tube evidence... ?

    GMW
    Both Steven and Shioda are devote students of Ueshiba, therefore I don't count them as objective eye-witnesses. And John Steven wasn't even there when this took place in Manchuria. This is from an interview with ueshiba:http://http://www.aikidojournal.com/...e?articleID=98
    B: I have heard a story about how you were involved with a fight with about 150 workers.

    O-Sensei: I was? As I remember… Deguchi Sensei went to Mongolia in 1924 in order to accomplish his goal of a greater Asian community in line with the national policy. I accompanied him on his request even though I was asked to enter the army. We traveled in Mongolia and Manchuria. While in the latter country, we encountered a group of mounted bandits and heavy shooting broke out. I returned their fire with a mauser and then proceeded to run into the midst of the bandits, attacking them fiercely, and they dispersed. I succeeded in escaping danger.
    As I've always suspected, aikido works best with a gun...

  6. #6
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    Shooting someone with a machinegun is not very good Aikido.
    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

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  7. #7
    Nihonto's Avatar
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    I was just looking for evidence of Ueshiba actually entering any fights or duels at all. He was a student of many koryu MA, but most koryu do not spar - and definitely do not enter open competition. And during his lifetime it is unlikely that he had to use his arts in actual combat. Correct me if I am wrong, but he did not use hand-to-hand MA in war.
    Last edited by Nihonto; 1/13/2008 1:43am at .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    John Steven, in his Ueshiba's bio wrote of how M. Ueshiba fought and killed Manchurian bandits with katana in Manchuria/Manchukuo during the 30's.

    Gozo Shioda (a pre-war uchideshi) wrote in his auto-biography (Aikido Shugyo), how M. Ueshiba broke the hip of a judoka (dojo challenger) with a tsuki to the hip.

    Are you are looking for You-Tube evidence... ?

    GMW

    Steven also wrote about Ueshiba having telepathic powers and hitting a hole in one the very first time he hit a golf ball.

    I don't think he is the unbiased witness we are looking for.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyd
    Shooting someone with a machinegun is not very good Aikido.

    Minoru Mochizuki
    disagrees:

    We use kicking techniques or anything else. I even used artillery. Martial arts, guns and artillery are all aikido. What do you think aikido is? Do you think it involves only the twisting of hands? It is a means of war…
    http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=369

    On topic: There's a lot of stories about Ueshiba fights and challenges from both reliable and not reliable sources, but no video available. From a BS.net perspective these fights didn't happened.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS

    On topic: There's a lot of stories about Ueshiba fights and challenges from both reliable and not reliable sources, but no video available. From a BS.net perspective these fights didn't happened.
    DCS, which are the reliable sources telling of Ueshiba fights?

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