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  1. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 6:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Never read the book, but is he comparing calories? i.e. something like 200 Calories of French fries vs. 200 calories of baked Potato?

    That would make a bit more sense... maybe...
  2. MEGA JESUS-SAMA is offline
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    **** you math class

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 7:33pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, Ballet, Archery

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  3. Jhemsley is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2008 11:08am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you are trying to lose weight, I'd skip white potatos altogether.

    Its very calorie dense, and if you actually write down what you plan on eating based on a calorie budget, you'd quickly come to the conclusion that you simply can't afford the calories in the diet. There's just not any way to get the nutrients you need while having a calorie deficiet and eating enough volume, protein, fiber and fat to stay satiated if a white potato appears anywhere but on a cheat meal (which are borderline in use any).

    Sweet potatos are tough to fit in too. I actually couldn't figure out a way to get them in my calorie budget that I'm using. The same would probably be the case for you.

    If you are healthy and in shape, and just want to maintain - either is fine.

    My main point here is, the question "Is X food healthy?" is relative depending on what X is and what the person planning to eat it is planning to do.
  4. Crawfinski is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/11/2008 11:20am

    Bullshido Newbie
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    HappyOldGuy posted a link to an article about the inconsistency of the Glycemic Index, to which sounds like what South Beach Diet is referring. Read through the article - but for a quick reply to adding fat with carbs: Just because fat reacts to the carb and may not cause as sharp of an insulin spike, doesn't mean that it is healthier (French Fries vs. Baked Potato.

    Also, there are different kinds of fats, they could be referring to that. The fat in fish and peanuts (etc.) helps you burn the chubby stuff. If that is the fat they are talking about then listen to them. If they are just referring to any old fat, be wary.
  5. meataxe is offline
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    International Man of Pancakes

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2008 5:55pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Glycemic Index of potatoes seems to vary quite a bit, regardless of whether they are sweet or otherwise. I think the best tip would be to eat them with the skin on.

    One other thing I like is to put cottage cheese on a baked potato. Depending on how much of a masochist you are you can try the lower fat variety. Very tasty.

    Edit: GI Link -> http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
    - Voltaire
  6. ArielT is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2008 6:41am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The caloric density of a food is the numbers of calories that are contained in 1 gram of that food. For instance, brown rice has a caloric density of 1.2, which means that brown rice has 1.2 calories per gram.

    That's a relatively low caloric-density food. Most fruits and vegetables are. For instance, an apple has a caloric density of 0.59—it has only 0.59 calories per gram. A carrot is 0.44. A banana is 0.6. A potato is 0.76.

    By contrast, a rib roast has a caloric-density of 3.31. A chicken thigh is 2.12. A pork chop is 2.28. Processed meats such as liverworst (3.32) or salami (4.20) are even higher. Bacon is 5.56.
    I believe a potato is the lowest caloric density starch. Theoretically you eat the same number of grams of different froods to feel "full" so if you eat until full you get less calories from eating mostly potato than say pork chops.
  7. AeroChica is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2008 9:32am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, MMA and Kids Jiu-Jitsu Style: Boxing, Mom-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ArielT
    Theoretically you eat the same number of grams of different froods to feel "full" so if you eat until full you get less calories from eating mostly potato than say pork chops.
    I don't think that's true - some food make you 'feel full' (which is subjective, mind you) faster than others. In the book You: An Owner's Manual, Dr. Oz advises that you eat almonds before a meal - the protein and fat in the almonds triggers your satiety centre to release the 'I'm full' hormones earlier, so you are less hungry when eating your meal.

    I found this was true for me - I tracked my diet on a website for a few months and found that I was getting less than half the recommended amount of protein in my diet. I started having a protein bar for breakfast (30g protein) and found I was less hungry for the rest of the day, and had less of a tendancy to carb-load at dinner. When I changed the protein bar up for eggs in the morning (the bars have a lot of sugar in them), that got even better. Both South Beach and You:On a Diet (both written by cardiologists) agree - small amounts of good fats and lots of lean protien make you feel more full than carbs.

    Disclaimer - I'm not nutriding either of these books, they are just the ones I've read lately. I am still trying to make sense of the advice they give, but as I said, they basically agree with what Macho has been preaching all along.
  8. Jhemsley is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2008 11:24am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ArielT
    I believe a potato is the lowest caloric density starch. Theoretically you eat the same number of grams of different froods to feel "full" so if you eat until full you get less calories from eating mostly potato than say pork chops.
    Theoretically and in practice, you actually don't eat the same number of grams of different foods to feel full. Volume is a component of feeling full, but not the only component. The same volume of protein and fat are much more filling than the same volume of carbs in a given meal. Spread out a across multiple meals, volume is even less important. Your body doesn't track how many grams of volume it requires. It tracks protein, essential fat and energy. When it thinks one is out of balance, it asks for more no matter how many grams it had to eat that day.

    By gram, I'm sure your information is accurate. But that is mearument that is all but useless because its so incomplete. It's more accurate to rate it in terms of nutrients, protein and essential fats. White potatos are a big loser in this regard. You get carbs and - thats just about it. When trying to create a calorie deficiet, it becomes readily apparent when writing everything down that you just can't have anything that gives just carbs and very little fiber, very little protein, and very little fat.

    Also, do you actually think think a pound of pork chops is less filling than potatos? Cook up a bunch of each, and see which you can eat by weight more of. If its the potatos still, keep in mind, if the amount actually consumed is even close - the pork chops still win since it actually provided protein.

    I'm not anti-potato if the skin is eaten in general. I'm not anti-carb either - I try to eat 40% carbs a day trying to lose weight. But if you are trying to lose weight, white potatos are really bad idea. Its just to hard to make up the protein, fiber and fat in other places.
  9. ArielT is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2008 10:55pm

    Bullshido Newbie
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Heh, I was just playing devil's advocate and expressing why some people have a thing for potatoes. I think the perception cam emostly from the McDougal plan (vegan, carborich diet) back from the 70s. I would agree with your assertion that fullness doesn't really work that way, but if I remember correctly, McDougal claims that if you eat foods that aren't calorie dense (anything less dense than flour) whenever you are hungry, you literally cannot eat enough calories to get fat.

    Also, I always thought potatoes had a pretty good fiber content. I suppose the comparison to flour and the like sort of throws that perception out of balance.
  10. Crawfinski is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2008 7:10am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you wait until your "hungry" to eat and if you eat until you feel full, you're already setting yourself up to be more prone to weight gain whether you eat potatoes or pork chops. One of things most of the "diet" (using that term loosely here) and nutrition/fitness plans have in common nowadays (at least in principle, if not method) is that you need to eat 5-6 smaller meals a day, opposed to the the traditional 3 bigger "square" meals.

    I'm a big fellow (but getting smaller mind you) and have been eating 6 meals a day for the past 4 months. Each meal is roughly 350-400 calories (I allow a little more for the 7:00pm meal to give my wife a chance to cook) and I eat every 2.5-3 hours, and surprisingly I never get hungry throughout the day. That, with some of the best motivation I've had for working out in years, has been keeping on the straight and narrow path to reaching my fighting weight.

    I eat potatoes everyday (and on good days my wife will make those blessed sweet potato fries with some chicken), but it's only about one cup with my five scrambled egg whites/one whole egg and a slice of whole wheat bread. I'm doing something like Jhemsley and eating about 40% carbs (also 40% protein/10% fats) and potatoes fit into my plan pretty well. BUT, like with anything else you may or may not eat, it comes down to portion size, timing, and activity level (which is not a problem for this community). You eat too much of anything at the wrong time and it will not be in the best interest of achieving weight loss.
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