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  1. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 5:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Crawfinski
    Well, you can gain muscle and lose fat, but you may not notice it on a scale. Over the last three months I started working out again with a combination of weight training and cardio and stuck to a very strict nutrition plan. I lost 4-5% of my body fat, but remained at the same scale weight (I lost the fat but gained muscle). This is not an anecdotal account either, it happens. True, the actual process may be separate and not occuring at the same time, but the results are the same. The key is to make sure the calories you take in are working to build muscle/burn fat. Proteins are a no brainer, but watching what kind of carbs you eat makes a big difference as well. Emevas is right, it can happen during a certain time frame (i.e., over the course of three months).

    Granted, that does not help you in your goal to lose 10lbs fast.

    I've used Xendrine in the past and use the advice from above - start out slow. The first time I took it I went with the full dose and didn't sleep for about two and half days, literally. The interesting thing about it was that I wasn't jittery or anything like that-I was alert, awake, aware of my surroundings and fully operational. Any when I came down off of it I had the best days sleep ever :) After that everything went smooth and it definitely helped me drop some stubborn weight (with regular exercise of course).

    *** Edited: Also, another thing to remember that the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn. I think that for every pound of muscle you have you burn another 50 calories per day (someone may check me on the numbers).
    Reducing your bodyfat% is not the same as losing fat. You can reduce your bodyfat percentage while losing no fat if you gain more muscle, as it's simply the percentage of your body that is fat. A 100lb person with 20lbs of fat will have a greater bodyfat % than a 200lb person with 20lbs of fat. Along with that, when you just get into exercise, you get beginner gains, which will show a great increase of muscle and decrease in fat, but for those that have trained for a while, the rules of biology apply.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  2. tyciol is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 5:52pm


     Style: Tae Kwon-Do, Fencing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I drink coffee, does caffeine count? Not for any purpose though, just delicious.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 6:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ninhoto, your program looks tight, but there are some things that you could change.

    For starters, take the amount of food you are eating and break it into 5-6 meals - eating in three meals is not a good idea.

    Cut the pasta (and other carbs) you have at night in half, or nix them completely in favor of things like brocolli and other greens that gives you plenty of fiber. Include tofu, chicken without skin or tuna. The last meal you have in the day is the one you have to be careful the most.

    Lastly, I would drop the curls, leg presses and hip abductors to make time for squats and deadlifts. The curls may be overkill since you are doing pull ups already. Leg presses are fine, but squats and deadlifts are king, with heavy lunges right behind them.

    Other than that, you seem to be going in the right direction.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. Nihonto is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 10:03pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    For starters, take the amount of food you are eating and break it into 5-6 meals - eating in three meals is not a good idea.

    Cut the pasta (and other carbs) you have at night in half, or nix them completely in favor of things like brocolli and other greens that gives you plenty of fiber. Include tofu, chicken without skin or tuna. The last meal you have in the day is the one you have to be careful the most.
    I'll give that a try. I have a desk job (part of the problem), but I am thinking of toting in a container full of veggies to munch on during the day. Then when lunch comes I can make it lighter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Lastly, I would drop the curls, leg presses and hip abductors to make time for squats and deadlifts. The curls may be overkill since you are doing pull ups already. Leg presses are fine, but squats and deadlifts are king, with heavy lunges right behind them.
    I may need to get a video to do this. I'm not an experienced lifter and I don't need a messed up back. Any advice on books/vids? Also should sets/reps for these be about 3x10?

    Thanks for the help.
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/08/2008 9:10am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd suggest Rippetoe's Starting Strenght, 2nd Edition. Can't go wrong with that one. It'll explain you how, when and how much to lift with those basic movements. Another thing, don't stick to a fixed number of sets and reps. You need to listen to your body and push it.

    This is my personal take on it - other people may experience different results:

    3x10 really doesn't do anything, any with exercise. People rotate from one exercise to another, doing 3x10s, hoping that it increases intensity. It doesn't have to be that complex.

    I always have a higher number of reps on the squats than in the deadlifts. I don't see the deadlift as an exercise in which you should do a number of reps higher than 7 (except for warm ups.) Too many sets at a higher number of reps makes your lower back unnecessarily tired without actually making any strenght/size gains.

    I try to use the following set/rep structure for squats and deadlifts:

    squats:

    2 warm up sets (10 to 15 reps, ass to the floor - I should be able to do 20 reps with my warm up weight, but I keep my reps up to 15.)
    Some body lunges and IT band, neck and shoulder stretches

    Then I estimate how much I really can handle with 9-10 reps. I may be able to get a few extra reps every now and then (that's why I keep a log to know how much I should be able to lift in good health.)

    Then I increase the weight, decreasing the number of reps until I have my last one with 3 reps only. Ideally, the workout would look like this: 1 x 9-10 reps, 1 x 7 reps, 1 x 5 reps, 1 x 4, 1 x 3.

    For deadlifts, I do two sets of warm ups, 8-10 reps (should be able to do more reps, but I stick to that rep range.)

    Then I start working my way from 6 reps down to 1-2 in 4-5 sets... ideally.

    I don't know what your current shape is, for those lifts. Maybe you'll have no problem going heavy, low reps. Or maybe you'll have to spend a couple of months sticking to 10-reps (though I strongly suggest you keep your reps low in the deadlift.)

    The important thing is that you have proper form. You do that, and you'll be fine. Rippetoe's book will help you a lot with that.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. Greyfox is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/08/2008 9:13am


     Style: Wing Chun; Modern Wushu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When it comes to pasta/rice, if you're not eating wholegrain, you should be. Very good source of complex carbs, in my opinion. And I agree with Macho - you want to spread your meals throughout the day. Regarding eating little in the last meal, you might also want to look at structuring your meals by the 'King, Prince and Pauper' principle - the first meal is the largest, with each subsequent meal being progressively smaller.

    If you're looking to know about nutrition, I also advise that you pick up a copy of 'The Optimum Nutrition Bible' by Patrick Holford. It has pretty much everything you need to know about building a good diet for yourself.

    Emevas - have you seen the article by Donnelly et al. on weight training for fat loss? I don't have the full text to hand, but here's the abstract - Muscle hypertrophy with large-scale weight loss and resistance training

    From what I remember, the diet was high-protein, low-carb, low-fat, with a full vitamin supplement. However, the population was obese adults, so the principles may not carry over. The amount of calories is also far less than I'd personally recommend.
    Last edited by Greyfox; 1/08/2008 9:25am at .
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/08/2008 9:33am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nihonto, BTW, try Hydroxicut/Xenadrine in the meantime. As interesting as lifting is, it may still not help you shed those last pounds of blubber as fast as you'd like to. You are already working out hard and trying to get on top of your diet. I think you are on your way of getting your results one way or another.

    But if you want faster results (while always improving your diet and maybe incorporate the big lifts into your workout), give Hydroxicut or Xenadrine a try. Also try ZMA - I was ambivalent with it, but I'm starting to become a believer. Another thing, are you taking BCAAs????? If not, you should.

    Also, check the bunkler's website: http://www.bunklers.com/Plain_Foods.html

    Don't knock it off since it's a fitness chic's website. The stuff in it is applicable to anyone that does physical activities and wants to get leaner (so long as it doesn't impair his sports performance.)
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Crawfinski is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    1/08/2008 9:44am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Reducing your bodyfat% is not the same as losing fat. You can reduce your bodyfat percentage while losing no fat if you gain more muscle, as it's simply the percentage of your body that is fat. A 100lb person with 20lbs of fat will have a greater bodyfat % than a 200lb person with 20lbs of fat. Along with that, when you just get into exercise, you get beginner gains, which will show a great increase of muscle and decrease in fat, but for those that have trained for a while, the rules of biology apply.
    Very good point. Before starting up again three months ago it had been a very long time since I have done any serious exercise (I have years of graduate school to thank for that), and I know that I greatly benefited from beginner gains. And unfortunately, I still have quite a bit to go before I hit my goals, but I'm committed and my wife is trying as hard as she can to cook appropriate meals to help me reach my goal, which is hard for her because she really likes to cook and she knows I really like to eat the food she cooks.

    In the last three months, the only thermogenics that I used was ThermoDynamx. It was different from Xenadrine in that the manufacturers recommended that you only take it five days a week (Once before your workout, and once again later that day). It had the same amount of caffeine as a cup of coffee and a few other ingredients to boost your metabolism. I did not see any significant additional results from that than I was already getting from working out and sticking to my eating schedule, so I only used the one bottle.

    I agree with everyone else, balance your diet and make your workouts count and you will see the results. The one thing I have now that I did not have a few years ago is patience. And sometimes that last stubborn 10 lbs will require more patience than us big guys losing xx lbs
  9. Nihonto is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/08/2008 1:08pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Nihonto, BTW, try Hydroxicut/Xenadrine in the meantime. As interesting as lifting is, it may still not help you shed those last pounds of blubber as fast as you'd like to. You are already working out hard and trying to get on top of your diet. I think you are on your way of getting your results one way or another.

    But if you want faster results (while always improving your diet and maybe incorporate the big lifts into your workout), give Hydroxicut or Xenadrine a try. Also try ZMA - I was ambivalent with it, but I'm starting to become a believer. Another thing, are you taking BCAAs????? If not, you should.
    El Macho - I just picked up a big bottle of Hydroxycut-Hardcore and a bottle of BCAA suplements. I will post any results.

    Thanks again.
  10. Uri Shatil is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/09/2008 2:30am


     Style: Wrestling, BJJ n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    What he's been saying
    I'm going to have to say you're wrong here. First of all, gaining muscle- becoming stronger, that is, does not require a calorie surplus. To gain a lot of noticable muscle mass in a short time does, but I work out and I've increased my capacity on all lifts while burning fat. It's pretty simple science, really- if you metabolize fat to lift, it's the same as metabolizing carbs. If you lift to failure, you will get stronger, so long as you have some energy.

    Of course, if you want to become much stronger in a short period of time (IE gain one pound a week of muscle mass), then yes, you would want high caloric intake and an assload of protein, but that does not mean that anyone hoping to get stronger must have a calorie surplus.
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