Thread: Anyone use Thermogenics
1/07/2008 12:12am, #1
Anyone use Thermogenics
Anyone use Thermogenics to cut weight? I'm looking to cut about 10 pounds. Trying as hard as I can to cut it with jusT cardio work, but it seems that any build up I do with lifting is countering it. It's not like I don't have some fat that can be cut it's just not happening as fast as I would like. And I don't want to lose muscle mass.
Is Thermogenics a viable thing? If so, which ones are good, and what's the program? How bad will it mess with my MA training? If this is a dumb idea just tell me to do more cardio - I won't be offended.
1/07/2008 12:29am, #2
Are you trying to cut fat or cut weight for a competition? The only way lifting can counter your weight loss is if you're eating enough to put on muscle, which means you're eating too much to lose fat in the first place. If you eat a calorie deficit, you will lose weight."Emevas,
You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
1/07/2008 12:56am, #3Originally Posted by Emevas
I am trying to aggressively build muscle too. Are you saying I can't do both? Burn off my fat, and build muscle? That would suck ... If that's the case I would rather stay as HW class and just fight it out ...
1/07/2008 1:01am, #4
Thermogenic supplements technically work as advertised. They cause your body to burn hotter ("thermo") and therefore you burn more calories. For me, they're not that effective, but who knows, they could be your miracle cure.
Just be sure, as in all weight loss regimens, not to starve yourself, and be sure to hydrate.
1/07/2008 1:10am, #5
To be more specific:
I am assuming that the use of an ECA stack (Ephedrine + Caffeine + Aspirin) would be detrimental to training in any MA, if taken while training. But can you cycle it? For example; If I train BJJ 3 times a week and Judo once a week, can I make use of the ECA on the "off-days" while still doing cardio or weights, and not totally screw myself up?
1/07/2008 1:28am, #6Originally Posted by Nihonto
1/07/2008 9:22am, #7
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
Nihonto, what is your age, what is your current weight, what's your target weight, and what is your current training (weightlifting+cardio) and what is your current diet?
Now, in the last two questions, please provide details. No stuff like "I lift this and that" or "I eat snack and the something-something for lunch". Imagine you have to describe me your average day and tell me what you eat and when, down to the last cup of coffee. Also, imagine you have to describe what your weekly workout routine is, including every exercise, number of sets, number of reps per set and duration in minutes of your average workout.
It's tedious, but it's an exercise worth doing. You may find your answers in it rather than in thermogenics.
Having said that, I'll answer your question:
I've used thermogenics such as Xenadrine and Hydroxicut (both ephedra-based and ephedra-free) and "water-cutting" products such as taraxatone. Taraxatone works, but it's not my cup of tea.
Xenadrine and Hydroxicut work, but you have to be careful. You cannot jump to the suggested dossage cold-turkey. You have to start assessing your tolerance for about a week. You start with one pill in the morning and the morning after. If you don't feel dizzy, restless or with an upset stomach, then the next two days is 1 in the morning and one early afternoon, for two days. If you can handle that, then try 2 in the morning and nothing in the afternoon for two days. Then if you can handle it, then 2 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon... and so on and so on until you get 2 in the morning and 2 early afternoon.
What I can tolerate is 2 in the morning or 1 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon. Rarely I can handle 2 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon for several days. I do not try 2 and 2 - last time I tried I felt my heart was about to jump out of my throat. That was with the older ephedra-based versions. The new ephedra-free versions may be different, but I won't try it. **** it.
I use Xenadrine or Hydroxicut from time to time, 2 in the morning, as an energy booster, on an empty stomach before running or some other physical activity. It works, but you have to be consistent with it, for weeks, every day. You will not see **** if you take it every other day for 2-3 weeks, and certainly not if your workout and diet are not conductive of body fat loss...
... which is why it will be best if you can answer my previous questions.
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1/07/2008 1:20pm, #8
To answer one of your questions, no, you cannot gain muscle while losing fat, because both have separate requirements. Building muscle requires eating a calorie surplus, while losing fat requires eating a calorie deficit. You can follow certain dieting strategies so that you gain muscle and lose fat within the same time frame (such as carb cycling), but even then, the times that you are gaining muscle and losing fat are separate."Emevas,
You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
1/07/2008 4:56pm, #9
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Stillwater, OK
Well, you can gain muscle and lose fat, but you may not notice it on a scale. Over the last three months I started working out again with a combination of weight training and cardio and stuck to a very strict nutrition plan. I lost 4-5% of my body fat, but remained at the same scale weight (I lost the fat but gained muscle). This is not an anecdotal account either, it happens. True, the actual process may be separate and not occuring at the same time, but the results are the same. The key is to make sure the calories you take in are working to build muscle/burn fat. Proteins are a no brainer, but watching what kind of carbs you eat makes a big difference as well. Emevas is right, it can happen during a certain time frame (i.e., over the course of three months).
Granted, that does not help you in your goal to lose 10lbs fast.
I've used Xendrine in the past and use the advice from above - start out slow. The first time I took it I went with the full dose and didn't sleep for about two and half days, literally. The interesting thing about it was that I wasn't jittery or anything like that-I was alert, awake, aware of my surroundings and fully operational. Any when I came down off of it I had the best days sleep ever :) After that everything went smooth and it definitely helped me drop some stubborn weight (with regular exercise of course).
*** Edited: Also, another thing to remember that the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn. I think that for every pound of muscle you have you burn another 50 calories per day (someone may check me on the numbers).
Last edited by Crawfinski; 1/07/2008 5:19pm at .
1/07/2008 5:42pm, #10Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
Weight: 190 (target is just a hair under 180)
- BJJ 3 times / week (2x1 hour sessions, and 1x2 hour session)
- Judo 1 per week 1.5 hour session
Other Training on days I don’t do MA:
- pushups 200 (I just like doing pushups)
- Pull-ups 20 (would do more but have elbow tendon issue right now)
- Crunches 40
- Curls 70lb 3x15rep
- Press 80lb 2x10rep
- Leg Presses and Hip Adduction machine (not sure but it’s about 75% of the weights on the machine) 2x8rep
- Skip rope and/or some bag work (10 minutes?)
- Running: 2 miles – on treadmill usually 6mph 1-2% incline.
Average workout time is about an hour. This does not include the pushups and pull-ups which I do throughout the day. And I do the heavy bag when I get home from work.
Other physical activity:
Ride motocross/offroad on Sundays if I can. Race occasionally
Sunday is my off day. On my off day and MA days I still like to do 100 pushups and do stretching.
Some High fiber cereal – Brand name stuff
Low fat yogurt or some other fruit
Glass of OJ and a coffee
Another coffee when I get to work
Mix of carb and protein. Examples: Good size portion of sushi and rice, or chicken breast and green beans with salad. Eat out a lot at lunch, but try and keep away from the bad places.
Afternoon Snack only if I’m doing BJJ in the evening otherwise no snack:
Bag of trail mix and sometimes a power bar
Red Bull on my way to the gym
Off days (no MA training): Similar to Lunch, but a bit heavier – add in some pasta. Add in one or two glasses or red wine.
MA days: Something very light since I get home late: Soup or something. No alcohol.
Saturday night is usually Margarita or [insert other beverage] night. This part is non-negotiable. :)
I started this routine about 3 months ago. Before that I was doing much less exercise, just MA and some very light stuff at home. I have improved my upper body strength and endurance a lot, but only lost about 5 pounds. I did go down one pant size which is good. I am happy with my progress but I know I still have fat to burn, and want to get in the next weight class down for my first BJJ tournament.