218357 Bullies, 4482 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 33
Page 1 of 4 1 234 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Nihonto is offline
    Nihonto's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    281

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 12:12am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Anyone use Thermogenics

    Anyone use Thermogenics to cut weight? I'm looking to cut about 10 pounds. Trying as hard as I can to cut it with jusT cardio work, but it seems that any build up I do with lifting is countering it. It's not like I don't have some fat that can be cut it's just not happening as fast as I would like. And I don't want to lose muscle mass.

    Is Thermogenics a viable thing? If so, which ones are good, and what's the program? How bad will it mess with my MA training? If this is a dumb idea just tell me to do more cardio - I won't be offended.
  2. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Minot AFB, ND
    Posts
    6,791

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 12:29am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are you trying to cut fat or cut weight for a competition? The only way lifting can counter your weight loss is if you're eating enough to put on muscle, which means you're eating too much to lose fat in the first place. If you eat a calorie deficit, you will lose weight.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  3. Nihonto is offline
    Nihonto's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    281

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 12:56am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Are you trying to cut fat or cut weight for a competition? The only way lifting can counter your weight loss is if you're eating enough to put on muscle, which means you're eating too much to lose fat in the first place. If you eat a calorie deficit, you will lose weight.
    I'm trying to cut fat. I think I have at least 10 lbs. of fat tha could be cut. Most of our tournaments weigh you going onto the mat, so water weight cutting is not an option for me. I know I can just eat less, but then I feel like crap and train like crap. If I can speed things up safely with chemicals I would be for it.

    I am trying to aggressively build muscle too. Are you saying I can't do both? Burn off my fat, and build muscle? That would suck ... If that's the case I would rather stay as HW class and just fight it out ...
  4. Airman Kai is offline
    Airman Kai's Avatar

    AK: Giving new meaning to the word "Unfair."

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Scott AFB, IL
    Posts
    1,536

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 1:01am


     Style: Out-Of-Shape MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thermogenic supplements technically work as advertised. They cause your body to burn hotter ("thermo") and therefore you burn more calories. For me, they're not that effective, but who knows, they could be your miracle cure.

    Just be sure, as in all weight loss regimens, not to starve yourself, and be sure to hydrate.

    Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermogenic



  5. Nihonto is offline
    Nihonto's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    281

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 1:10am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To be more specific:

    I am assuming that the use of an ECA stack (Ephedrine + Caffeine + Aspirin) would be detrimental to training in any MA, if taken while training. But can you cycle it? For example; If I train BJJ 3 times a week and Judo once a week, can I make use of the ECA on the "off-days" while still doing cardio or weights, and not totally screw myself up?
  6. Airman Kai is offline
    Airman Kai's Avatar

    AK: Giving new meaning to the word "Unfair."

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Scott AFB, IL
    Posts
    1,536

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 1:28am


     Style: Out-Of-Shape MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihonto
    To be more specific:

    I am assuming that the use of an ECA stack (Ephedrine + Caffeine + Aspirin) would be detrimental to training in any MA, if taken while training. But can you cycle it? For example; If I train BJJ 3 times a week and Judo once a week, can I make use of the ECA on the "off-days" while still doing cardio or weights, and not totally screw myself up?
    There are no lasting chemical effects that I know of. I say go for it, and if you feel "slow" or something on your training days, just stop. To be honest, I don't know why you'd avoid taking it on your training days, it'd help you burn calories whilst rolling around on the ground or throwing your favorite uki.



  7. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
    Posts
    11,762

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 9:22am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nihonto, what is your age, what is your current weight, what's your target weight, and what is your current training (weightlifting+cardio) and what is your current diet?

    Now, in the last two questions, please provide details. No stuff like "I lift this and that" or "I eat snack and the something-something for lunch". Imagine you have to describe me your average day and tell me what you eat and when, down to the last cup of coffee. Also, imagine you have to describe what your weekly workout routine is, including every exercise, number of sets, number of reps per set and duration in minutes of your average workout.

    It's tedious, but it's an exercise worth doing. You may find your answers in it rather than in thermogenics.

    Having said that, I'll answer your question:

    I've used thermogenics such as Xenadrine and Hydroxicut (both ephedra-based and ephedra-free) and "water-cutting" products such as taraxatone. Taraxatone works, but it's not my cup of tea.

    Xenadrine and Hydroxicut work, but you have to be careful. You cannot jump to the suggested dossage cold-turkey. You have to start assessing your tolerance for about a week. You start with one pill in the morning and the morning after. If you don't feel dizzy, restless or with an upset stomach, then the next two days is 1 in the morning and one early afternoon, for two days. If you can handle that, then try 2 in the morning and nothing in the afternoon for two days. Then if you can handle it, then 2 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon... and so on and so on until you get 2 in the morning and 2 early afternoon.

    What I can tolerate is 2 in the morning or 1 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon. Rarely I can handle 2 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon for several days. I do not try 2 and 2 - last time I tried I felt my heart was about to jump out of my throat. That was with the older ephedra-based versions. The new ephedra-free versions may be different, but I won't try it. **** it.

    I use Xenadrine or Hydroxicut from time to time, 2 in the morning, as an energy booster, on an empty stomach before running or some other physical activity. It works, but you have to be consistent with it, for weeks, every day. You will not see **** if you take it every other day for 2-3 weeks, and certainly not if your workout and diet are not conductive of body fat loss...

    ... which is why it will be best if you can answer my previous questions.

    Take care.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Minot AFB, ND
    Posts
    6,791

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 1:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To answer one of your questions, no, you cannot gain muscle while losing fat, because both have separate requirements. Building muscle requires eating a calorie surplus, while losing fat requires eating a calorie deficit. You can follow certain dieting strategies so that you gain muscle and lose fat within the same time frame (such as carb cycling), but even then, the times that you are gaining muscle and losing fat are separate.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  9. Crawfinski is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Stillwater, OK
    Posts
    75

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 4:56pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, you can gain muscle and lose fat, but you may not notice it on a scale. Over the last three months I started working out again with a combination of weight training and cardio and stuck to a very strict nutrition plan. I lost 4-5% of my body fat, but remained at the same scale weight (I lost the fat but gained muscle). This is not an anecdotal account either, it happens. True, the actual process may be separate and not occuring at the same time, but the results are the same. The key is to make sure the calories you take in are working to build muscle/burn fat. Proteins are a no brainer, but watching what kind of carbs you eat makes a big difference as well. Emevas is right, it can happen during a certain time frame (i.e., over the course of three months).

    Granted, that does not help you in your goal to lose 10lbs fast.

    I've used Xendrine in the past and use the advice from above - start out slow. The first time I took it I went with the full dose and didn't sleep for about two and half days, literally. The interesting thing about it was that I wasn't jittery or anything like that-I was alert, awake, aware of my surroundings and fully operational. Any when I came down off of it I had the best days sleep ever :) After that everything went smooth and it definitely helped me drop some stubborn weight (with regular exercise of course).

    *** Edited: Also, another thing to remember that the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn. I think that for every pound of muscle you have you burn another 50 calories per day (someone may check me on the numbers).
    Last edited by Crawfinski; 1/07/2008 5:19pm at .
  10. Nihonto is offline
    Nihonto's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    281

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 5:42pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Nihonto, what is your age, what is your current weight, what's your target weight, and what is your current training (weightlifting+cardio) and what is your current diet?

    Now, in the last two questions, please provide details. No stuff like "I lift this and that" or "I eat snack and the something-something for lunch". Imagine you have to describe me your average day and tell me what you eat and when, down to the last cup of coffee. Also, imagine you have to describe what your weekly workout routine is, including every exercise, number of sets, number of reps per set and duration in minutes of your average workout.
    Age: 37
    Weight: 190 (target is just a hair under 180)
    Hieght: 59

    MA Training:
    - BJJ 3 times / week (2x1 hour sessions, and 1x2 hour session)
    - Judo 1 per week 1.5 hour session

    Other Training on days I dont do MA:
    3 days/week:
    - pushups 200 (I just like doing pushups)
    - Pull-ups 20 (would do more but have elbow tendon issue right now)
    - Crunches 40
    - Curls 70lb 3x15rep
    - Press 80lb 2x10rep
    - Leg Presses and Hip Adduction machine (not sure but its about 75% of the weights on the machine) 2x8rep
    - Skip rope and/or some bag work (10 minutes?)
    - Running: 2 miles on treadmill usually 6mph 1-2% incline.
    - Stretching

    Average workout time is about an hour. This does not include the pushups and pull-ups which I do throughout the day. And I do the heavy bag when I get home from work.

    Other physical activity:
    Ride motocross/offroad on Sundays if I can. Race occasionally
    Sunday is my off day. On my off day and MA days I still like to do 100 pushups and do stretching.

    Diet:

    Breakfast:
    Some High fiber cereal Brand name stuff
    Low fat yogurt or some other fruit
    Glass of OJ and a coffee
    Multi-vitamin
    Another coffee when I get to work

    Lunch:
    Mix of carb and protein. Examples: Good size portion of sushi and rice, or chicken breast and green beans with salad. Eat out a lot at lunch, but try and keep away from the bad places.

    Afternoon Snack only if Im doing BJJ in the evening otherwise no snack:
    Bag of trail mix and sometimes a power bar
    Red Bull on my way to the gym

    Dinner:
    Off days (no MA training): Similar to Lunch, but a bit heavier add in some pasta. Add in one or two glasses or red wine.

    MA days: Something very light since I get home late: Soup or something. No alcohol.

    Saturday night is usually Margarita or [insert other beverage] night. This part is non-negotiable. :)

    I started this routine about 3 months ago. Before that I was doing much less exercise, just MA and some very light stuff at home. I have improved my upper body strength and endurance a lot, but only lost about 5 pounds. I did go down one pant size which is good. I am happy with my progress but I know I still have fat to burn, and want to get in the next weight class down for my first BJJ tournament.
    Age: 37
Page 1 of 4 1 234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.