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  1. JMass is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 9:37pm


     Style: BJJ-Caique, Shootfighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Takedown vs pullng guard?

    I participated in my first grappling tournament on Saturday. About 6 different schools from the Detroit area were represented. I was really suprised to see the difference in styles. Some guys were obviously from a wrestling background and were determined to get the takedown and get top position. Others, especially the Gracie guys, looked for any excuse to fall to the ground without "pulling guard" and losing the points. They then butt scooted around not wanting to get back to their feet.

    The results were kind of interesting. It seemed that the wrestling guys were having their way with all but the best flopping guys. The exception was a really good (in my limited experience) Gracie guy who submitted almost everyone from his guard. However, in the final absolute division fight, he lost to a wrestling guy who took him down (therefore scoring points) and just protected himself. Not the best way to win, but I guess it worked.

    Anyway, my noob question is: Do you think it is better to try and take the oppponent down and work from the top, or just get to the guard anyway that you can and work your best game from there?
    Last edited by JMass; 1/06/2008 9:50pm at .
  2. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 9:56pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That depends on the competition and your opponent as well as your own strengths. In some comps you can pull guard without giving your opponent points as long as you initiate the action. If I feel like my opponent is going to be better at getting the takedown I will pull guard to avoid giving him the chance to score on me. If my opponent is someone that I have seen pull guard a lot in previous matches I will look to pull guard on them since they are probably more comfortable on their backs.
    Obviously I'd like to get the takedown and a good position and points, but there are strategic reasons not to do that.
  3. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 10:03pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Screw pulling guard. Real men take the time to learn takedowns along with their BJJ.

    Okay, macho posturing aside, what's not good about ending up on top? If your takedowns are slick enough, you should end up in side control, thereby negating the need to pass your opponent's guard.
  4. Munacra is offline
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    I Ducked Out on a Gong Sau

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 10:08pm


     Style: Gentleman Adventurer

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, takedowns make you look so much more cool.
  5. crazyk is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 10:30pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is one of the reasons I like sub competitions that are either tap or draw. Everyone has their strategy to win and no one just stalls because they're ahead on points.
  6. The Question is offline
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    Octopussy!

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 11:32pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Striking/Grappling/Poking

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Takedown defense is for pussies. Real men pull guard."

    - Das Moose
  7. JMass is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 11:37pm


     Style: BJJ-Caique, Shootfighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First off, sorry about posting in the wrong forum. I am the first to admit that I CRAPPLE. And any question I have no doubt belongs in Gitmo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon
    Obviously I'd like to get the takedown and a good position and points, but there are strategic reasons not to do that.
    I have been thinking about the kind of stuff in your post. I am trying to figure out what my style and game plan will be in competition. I am so green that I am just not sure yet. The wierd thing is, I am most comfortable with my opponent in my guard. In class most of my subs come from my guard. However, I am big and strong so can often get the takedown on unskilled opponents, therefore ending up on top. I would like to figure out a general game plan to implement rather than go all out and then figure out what to do from where I land.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyk
    This is one of the reasons I like sub competitions that are either tap or draw. Everyone has their strategy to win and no one just stalls because they're ahead on points.
    I agree 100%! I like the idea of tap or draw. Point scoring sucks.
  8. Vince Tortelli is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 11:38pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I once heard a BJJer say that pulling guard is actually better than a takedown in sub grappling (with no strikes allowed) his reasoning was that if you are in somebody's guard, your only options are to pass or use leg locks, but being in guard opens up a magical fairy land of moves to do (Armbar, triangle choke, guillotine, omoplata, hip heist sweep, scissor sweep, kimura, etc.)
  9. The Question is offline
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    Octopussy!

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 11:47pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Striking/Grappling/Poking

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli
    I once heard a BJJer say that pulling guard is actually better than a takedown in sub grappling (with no strikes allowed) his reasoning was that if you are in somebody's guard, your only options are to pass or use leg locks, but being in guard opens up a magical fairy land of moves to do (Armbar, triangle choke, guillotine, omoplata, hip heist sweep, scissor sweep, kimura, etc.)
    Yeah, I'm leaning towards agreeing with that statement.
  10. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 11:54pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli
    I once heard a BJJer say that pulling guard is actually better than a takedown in sub grappling (with no strikes allowed) his reasoning was that if you are in somebody's guard, your only options are to pass or use leg locks, but being in guard opens up a magical fairy land of moves to do (Armbar, triangle choke, guillotine, omoplata, hip heist sweep, scissor sweep, kimura, etc.)
    That statement runs completely contrary to BJJ's positional hierarchy.

    I'm no self-defense freak, but goddamn, talk about bad habits.

    edit: Honestly, sounds like his guard passing sucked.
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