1/06/2008 8:03am, #1
Getting caught in ezekiel(?) while holding guard..
I got caught to a deep bicep lock / bicep crush that took a month to nurture and finally got back to grappling. The first session was with a friend of mine who has done 4-5 years of hokutoryu ju-jutsu and a couple of months in several other arts. Even with my measly 3 months of BJJ I could pretty much dominate him on ground, pulling of sweeps and submissions pretty easily.
Except for this annoying choke he was doing all the time. While holding him in my guard
he constantly pushed his left forearm under my chin. Now, he's a tall and lanky fellow (abt. 15 cm or half a foot longer than I am) so he could do that with a pretty good posture. He isn't that much stronger than I am, but it still took almost my full attention every time to keep that forearm from doing any harm. If he secured a hold deep enough into my collar he tried to finish off the choke by getting his right hand under my head (Ezekiel choke?) and grabbing the sleeve of his left arm. This is something they trained extensively while he was doing hokutoryu, so he was very slick with the choke.
Of course as he committed both hands to doing this while in guard I could easily sweep him, but he was really good at keeping his grips I got choked out a couple of times in the process.
I'm wondering about my options. Obviously the grip fighting and posture breaking is the first thing I should do, but he was really good at sinking the arm under my chin even when I tried to keep my chin tucked in and used both hands to control the arm. I was wondering all the time about what to do while kept pushing forward. For most of the time it seemed to be a race against him sinking in the choke and me sweeping him before he did that after he figured out that the choking tactic works well against me.
So, what attacks does him committing to the choke really leave me? Sweeps are obvious but armbars from guard failed miserably each time I tried to do them. Since most of the time he was laying pretty low (my choice, I always brought him down and tried to break his posture) I couldn't secure a triangle even though I could push the other arm away. This was mostly to me being about as flexible as an iron bar. While pushing left forearm to my throat his right one was always either on my shoulder or near it, but attacking it was pretty hard while defending against left arm.
I don't get all spazzy while my breathing is somewhat obstructed and can control my actions, but I didn't figure anything very definitive with it. We drilled this a couple of times from the situation where the arm was already under or very close to being under my chin, but it was pretty much 50-50 whether my sweeping would save me or not. Grip fighting was useless after he secured his hold from my collar. I actually had to tap out a few times while holding in my guard which was pretty embarrassing :-)Curiosity killed the cat. But damn it had a blast.
1/06/2008 8:23am, #2
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Lund, Sweden
- BJJ & Judo (1k)
Any time someone goes that high with his arms on your body, either taking a headlock ("I'm squeezing his head! I must be winning!") or putting his forearm against your throat and putting his weight forward like that from top guard I heartily recommend going for an arm triangle. Arm triangles are tricky to finish from bottom but will often give you an easy sweep.
1/06/2008 12:32pm, #3
Hm. Now I only have to learn how to do arm triangle :)Curiosity killed the cat. But damn it had a blast.
1/06/2008 1:36pm, #4
As a beginner ezekiel is my bread and butter against other beginners, I almost feel guilty for using it as it feels cheap. However I dont really use it against harder opponents because im not that tall and it seems to lead to an easy sweep. Arm triangle is like a normal triangle....but with arms :D.
Heres an arm triangle from guard:
1/06/2008 5:00pm, #5
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- herndon, va, usa
- karate / bjj
feet on hips, push.
1/07/2008 1:09am, #6Originally Posted by pauli
1/07/2008 5:42am, #7
I can't believe this is even a problem for you.
Seeing as it is, however, butterfly sweep.
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1/07/2008 7:12am, #8Originally Posted by Hedgehogey
And thanks to everyone for your suggestions and tips.Curiosity killed the cat. But damn it had a blast.
1/07/2008 10:34am, #9
While anyone can on occasion get caught, if you're continually getting choked out by people in your guard you need to (a) stop lying on your back with your legs locked and do something and (b) learn to defend chokes.
1/07/2008 10:49am, #10Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
If he does get the first arm under your neck, get your hips are out to the same side as the elbow that's under your chin. Then cup his elbow with your palm and push/slide it away from the side your hips are on (edit: Forgot to add you have to do this rather quickly. Don't lay there fumbling for his elbow, it'll never work that way). This works especially well if he's bringing most of his weight to bear on his forearm. Try to sweep him or take his back as his elbow hits the mat.
Last edited by jnp; 1/07/2008 11:08am at .