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  1. hpr is offline
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    Knock-off Cthulhu

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    May 2007
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    Helsinki / Finland
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    2,180

    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 8:03am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Getting caught in ezekiel(?) while holding guard..

    I got caught to a deep bicep lock / bicep crush that took a month to nurture and finally got back to grappling. The first session was with a friend of mine who has done 4-5 years of hokutoryu ju-jutsu and a couple of months in several other arts. Even with my measly 3 months of BJJ I could pretty much dominate him on ground, pulling of sweeps and submissions pretty easily.

    Except for this annoying choke he was doing all the time. While holding him in my guard
    he constantly pushed his left forearm under my chin. Now, he's a tall and lanky fellow (abt. 15 cm or half a foot longer than I am) so he could do that with a pretty good posture. He isn't that much stronger than I am, but it still took almost my full attention every time to keep that forearm from doing any harm. If he secured a hold deep enough into my collar he tried to finish off the choke by getting his right hand under my head (Ezekiel choke?) and grabbing the sleeve of his left arm. This is something they trained extensively while he was doing hokutoryu, so he was very slick with the choke.

    Of course as he committed both hands to doing this while in guard I could easily sweep him, but he was really good at keeping his grips I got choked out a couple of times in the process.

    I'm wondering about my options. Obviously the grip fighting and posture breaking is the first thing I should do, but he was really good at sinking the arm under my chin even when I tried to keep my chin tucked in and used both hands to control the arm. I was wondering all the time about what to do while kept pushing forward. For most of the time it seemed to be a race against him sinking in the choke and me sweeping him before he did that after he figured out that the choking tactic works well against me.

    So, what attacks does him committing to the choke really leave me? Sweeps are obvious but armbars from guard failed miserably each time I tried to do them. Since most of the time he was laying pretty low (my choice, I always brought him down and tried to break his posture) I couldn't secure a triangle even though I could push the other arm away. This was mostly to me being about as flexible as an iron bar. While pushing left forearm to my throat his right one was always either on my shoulder or near it, but attacking it was pretty hard while defending against left arm.

    I don't get all spazzy while my breathing is somewhat obstructed and can control my actions, but I didn't figure anything very definitive with it. We drilled this a couple of times from the situation where the arm was already under or very close to being under my chin, but it was pretty much 50-50 whether my sweeping would save me or not. Grip fighting was useless after he secured his hold from my collar. I actually had to tap out a few times while holding in my guard which was pretty embarrassing :-)
    Curiosity killed the cat. But damn it had a blast.
  2. MEGALEF is offline

    Still digging on James Brown

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    Jan 2005
    Location
    Lund, Sweden
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    1,333

    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 8:23am


     Style: BJJ & Judo (1k)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Any time someone goes that high with his arms on your body, either taking a headlock ("I'm squeezing his head! I must be winning!") or putting his forearm against your throat and putting his weight forward like that from top guard I heartily recommend going for an arm triangle. Arm triangles are tricky to finish from bottom but will often give you an easy sweep.
  3. hpr is offline
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    Knock-off Cthulhu

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 12:32pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hm. Now I only have to learn how to do arm triangle :)
    Curiosity killed the cat. But damn it had a blast.
  4. Jadonblade is offline
    Jadonblade's Avatar

    Hoo Ha!

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    Sep 2007
    Location
    england
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    1,676

    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 1:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: San Da, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a beginner ezekiel is my bread and butter against other beginners, I almost feel guilty for using it as it feels cheap. However I dont really use it against harder opponents because im not that tall and it seems to lead to an easy sweep. Arm triangle is like a normal triangle....but with arms :D.

    Heres an arm triangle from guard:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVtZhxROpIY
  5. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    herndon, va, usa
    Posts
    3,521

    Posted On:
    1/06/2008 5:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    feet on hips, push.
  6. Shuma-Gorath is offline
    Shuma-Gorath's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Apr 2003
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 1:09am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    feet on hips, push.
    Pushing away just makes an ezekiel worse.
  7. Hedgehogey is offline
    Hedgehogey's Avatar

    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Jul 2002
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 5:42am

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can't believe this is even a problem for you.

    Seeing as it is, however, butterfly sweep.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  8. hpr is offline
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    Knock-off Cthulhu

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Helsinki / Finland
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    2,180

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 7:12am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey
    I can't believe this is even a problem for you.

    Seeing as it is, however, butterfly sweep.
    What can I say.. I suck :-)

    And thanks to everyone for your suggestions and tips.
    Curiosity killed the cat. But damn it had a blast.
  9. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Dec 2005
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    Descending into absurdity
    Posts
    6,977

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 10:34am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While anyone can on occasion get caught, if you're continually getting choked out by people in your guard you need to (a) stop lying on your back with your legs locked and do something and (b) learn to defend chokes.
  10. jnp is offline
    jnp's Avatar

    Titanium laced beauty

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    Apr 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    8,227

    Posted On:
    1/07/2008 10:49am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    While anyone can on occasion get caught, if you're continually getting choked out by people in your guard you need to (a) stop lying on your back with your legs locked and do something and (b) learn to defend chokes.
    To add to this, getting your hips out to one side will give you the maneuverability to fend off the rape choke (his arm under your chin). If he can't get his first arm into proper position, he can't set up the ezekial.

    If he does get the first arm under your neck, get your hips are out to the same side as the elbow that's under your chin. Then cup his elbow with your palm and push/slide it away from the side your hips are on (edit: Forgot to add you have to do this rather quickly. Don't lay there fumbling for his elbow, it'll never work that way). This works especially well if he's bringing most of his weight to bear on his forearm. Try to sweep him or take his back as his elbow hits the mat.
    Last edited by jnp; 1/07/2008 11:08am at .
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