10th Dan Question

**Askari** · Posted On: 1/06/2008 10:59am

Originally Posted by RobT

As for Marcelo Garcia "only" being a black belt. Why would he be higher? The dan grades in BJJ are based on time spent as a black belt and instructor etc.

That was my point, the coloured belts seem to generally indicate levels of ability, and a Black belt generally indicates superior ability.

Beyond that the dan ranks dont mean a lot other then time in, using Garcia as an example is perfect to demonstrate that. He has superior ability beyond even the normal superior ability of a Black Belt, and he is a low dan rank because of not having time in.

I didnt think I needed to go into that much detail explaining the example.

**new2bjj** · Posted On: 1/06/2008 11:51am

I find the Gracie arrogant and all that, but there is no arguing that Helio is not worthy of a 10th Degree. Hell, there are probably as many BJJ schools in most major US cities as Judo schools now. Meanwhile, there are guys that change one or two things in there K?mpo curriculum, add a set of kung fu or 2 they picked up, and bang! 10th Degree! Nothing really new or systematic, but there you go- Grand Professor! This isn't a dig at K?mpo alone, because I've seen plenty of TKD get all bent out of shape about ranks when they should be worried about a whole lot of more important things in their lives. Helio, on the other hand, as annoying as he could be, was a fucking National hero is Brazil! One final thing, it has always been my understanding that at about 3rd degree, in most martial arts, you are technically or physically as good as you can get- everything else is based on teaching and organization, and well, politics.

**BomberH** · Posted On: 1/06/2008 2:39pm

Originally Posted by Cdnronin

Are you sure you actually do judo?

Sorry I thought is was obvious that my post was sarcastic and not an honest belief. I know full well that Judo relies 95% on kuzushi, tsukuri and leverage.

Per Helio Gracie in "The Gracie Way":

So I started to study the leverage points on the human body. If you use leverage, you can multiply your effect many times over, much like you use a car jack to lift a car. You can't lift a car, but when you use a jack you can easily lift it. I simply adapted the use of a "jack" to every position of Jiu Jitsu........I made the sport accessible to the weakling so he could defend against a strong person - and now even the strong ones must learn my techniques so they don't get spanked by a weakling.

Helio claims that he adapted Maeda's Jiu Jitsu (i.e. Kodokan Judo) and added leverage to every position. I mean every position lacked leverage. I can't believe they let that go into print in a post 1990's book.

Originally Posted by Dsimon3387

???!!! Do yur self a favor and don't make blanket statements like that. I am quite sure at least two other posters will point out the fallicy of that particular statement, but in general when people talk about "how shitty Chinese martial arts are", or how JuJutsu guys wipe their ass backwards, etc... These types of things said all have the potential to bite you on the ass later in life. The internet is a cyberspaced recording . When you start to grow a brain you will cringe.

The bit about leverage was sarcasm. The bit about Judo being too hard for Helio I believe is a fully justified parody given Helio's ridiculous claims.

Anyhow I have learned from this thread that grades after black belt is BJJ don't really mean anything. I remember thinking how much more does a seventh dan know about BJJ than the world champion black belt I sometime cross train under. The answer is possibly not that much. They just have grey hair.

**Askari** · Posted On: 1/06/2008 2:51pm

Originally Posted by BomberH

I remember thinking how much more does a seventh dan know about BJJ than the world champion black belt I sometime cross train under. The answer is possibly not that much. They just have grey hair.

I guess its like all things, there are doctors who are better then others, but they both have the same degree.

I think in these cases you need to look at the man more then the dan rank. Off the top of my head I can think of several first dans that I would like to train with and several 7th dans I'd like to train with. The rank doesnt make what I learn from one better or more important then what I learn from another.

There are numerous people without a belt colour and with every other colour in between that that I have learned a trick or two from.

BJJ is an amazing sport that way.

**RobT** · Posted On: 1/06/2008 4:54pm

Originally Posted by Askari

That was my point, the coloured belts seem to generally indicate levels of ability, and a Black belt generally indicates superior ability.

Beyond that the dan ranks dont mean a lot other then time in, using Garcia as an example is perfect to demonstrate that. He has superior ability beyond even the normal superior ability of a Black Belt, and he is a low dan rank because of not having time in.

I didnt think I needed to go into that much detail explaining the example.

Sorry, I took your post a different way than you meant it. That's what I get for just scanning the thread!

**elipson** · Posted On: 1/06/2008 6:23pm

Yall gettin trolled here bad.

three things solve this whole thread.
1) Helio Gracie created the style, a style which has been proven very effective.
2) Helio has been doing this for like a hundred years. You teach something for that long, you deserve a rank like that, regardless of who gives it to you.
3) Helio fought maybe the best Judo player of all time, and did damn well considering. I seem to remember hearing that Kimura gave Helio nothing but praise after the match.

This whole thing is funny.