Thread: 10th Dan Question
1/04/2008 8:41am, #1
HELIO GRACIE REAL 10th DAN?
Who graded Helio Gracie? I've seen lots of references to him being a 10th Dan. Is he graded or does he go without rank?
Last edited by BomberH; 1/04/2008 9:52pm at . Reason: Changed title
1/04/2008 8:50am, #2
When no one can kick your ass I guess you can promote yourself to 10th Dan. I certainly wouldn't want to be the one to call him on it.
1/04/2008 9:02am, #3
Originally Posted by BomberH
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Mechanicsburg PA
1/04/2008 9:19am, #4
I was under the impression that the founder of a system was granted that ranking when the system was officially recognised. After that, it is passed to the senior practitioner by the previous 10th dan.
1/04/2008 9:20am, #5
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- West coast
Same question can be asked regarding Funakoshi, Kano, etc.
1/04/2008 10:15am, #6
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Murray KY
classic chicken and the egg dilema
i firmley belive one should never promote himself even if he did create it, esp in the beginning, lol grandmaster,professor,sifu etc and have one student lol
in our association, our professor was a chief instructor with almost 20 years in the C.H.A.3. Kenpo karate association, whwn we broke away to form our own (being located in the southeast us and cha3 being mostly in hawaii, having over 30 instructors at the time), so we could advance our knowledge, his entire instructor body offically promoted him to the Title Professor, then he promoted our asst Professor, some would cry foul at this point, but the first professor has to come from somewhere.
someone gathers knowledge and advanced ranks in arts and fuses them then instructs, as his association grows so can his rank, but the be a 10th dan to use traditional lingo, and no body of instructors and students etc is not a true 10th dan
1/04/2008 12:27pm, #7Originally Posted by sempaiman
While they were living, neither Jigoro Kano nor Gichin Funakoshi ever held rank in their respective styles they "founded". Posthumously, Kano was awarded a 12th Dan by the Kodokan and Funakoshi was awarded 10th Dan by his "organization" (whose name escapes me).
Kano can frequently be seen in pictures wearing a white belt. The pictures of him wearing a black belt were him wearing the rank of the Jujitsu styles he learned.
Last edited by Tom Kagan; 1/04/2008 12:29pm at .Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
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1/04/2008 9:48pm, #8
POTENTIALLY FAKE 10TH DANWhile they were living, neither Jigoro Kano nor Gichin Funakoshi ever held rank in their respective styles they "founded". Posthumously, Kano was awarded a 12th Dan by the Kodokan and Funakoshi was awarded 10th Dan by his "organization" (whose name escapes me).
So what do we have on Helio Gracie:
1. Potentially self graded / graded by friends with lower ranks
2. Factually incorrect lineage and history (i.e. Maeda = Kodokan not JuJitsu)
LET THE INQUISITION BEGIN
Who's going to email this Helio Gracie and ask to see copies of his dan grade certificates 1st through to 10th.
1/04/2008 10:02pm, #9
I always thought it would be a matter of politics. Don't give people the same rank you'd give yourself, or a rank easily attainable. If people get to your rank, they'd start second guessing you.DIDN'T YOU KNOW?! The Chinese know everything! And they knew it 4,000 years before YOU did!
"Yes. Yes I am. I'm clearly illiterate and dictating this post to a squadron of several dozen trained jumping beans I've coearced into living on my keyboard, each named after a letter or character, which bounce up and down as I call their names." -JohnnyCache
1/04/2008 10:27pm, #10
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
I am regularly hearing rumors from people that have trained with him that Helio wears a blue belt to teach. This is as recent as a few years ago at his club in Brazil. This may have changed though as it seems Rorion is very rank conscious.
The dan ranks in BJJ are a very recent addition to the art, and GJJ has only in the last few weeks given out GJJ Black Belt ranks to non-Brazilians."Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"