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  1. BomberH is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 8:41am


     Style: Judo, BJJ & Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    HELIO GRACIE REAL 10th DAN?

    Who graded Helio Gracie? I've seen lots of references to him being a 10th Dan. Is he graded or does he go without rank?
    Last edited by BomberH; 1/04/2008 9:52pm at . Reason: Changed title
  2. Vorpal is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 8:50am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When no one can kick your ass I guess you can promote yourself to 10th Dan. I certainly wouldn't want to be the one to call him on it.
  3. asimpson2006 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 9:02am


     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BomberH
    Who graded Helio Gracie? I've seen lots of references to him being a 10th Dan. Is he graded or does he go without rank?
    That does brind up an intersting question.
  4. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Guess which finger is the fickle one...

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 9:19am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was under the impression that the founder of a system was granted that ranking when the system was officially recognised. After that, it is passed to the senior practitioner by the previous 10th dan.
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  5. sempaiman is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 9:20am


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Same question can be asked regarding Funakoshi, Kano, etc.
  6. bill_nye68 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 10:15am


     Style: SEKKJBA, MACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    classic chicken and the egg dilema

    i firmley belive one should never promote himself even if he did create it, esp in the beginning, lol grandmaster,professor,sifu etc and have one student lol
    in our association, our professor was a chief instructor with almost 20 years in the C.H.A.3. Kenpo karate association, whwn we broke away to form our own (being located in the southeast us and cha3 being mostly in hawaii, having over 30 instructors at the time), so we could advance our knowledge, his entire instructor body offically promoted him to the Title Professor, then he promoted our asst Professor, some would cry foul at this point, but the first professor has to come from somewhere.

    someone gathers knowledge and advanced ranks in arts and fuses them then instructs, as his association grows so can his rank, but the be a 10th dan to use traditional lingo, and no body of instructors and students etc is not a true 10th dan
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 12:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sempaiman
    Same question can be asked regarding Funakoshi, Kano, etc.

    While they were living, neither Jigoro Kano nor Gichin Funakoshi ever held rank in their respective styles they "founded". Posthumously, Kano was awarded a 12th Dan by the Kodokan and Funakoshi was awarded 10th Dan by his "organization" (whose name escapes me).

    Kano can frequently be seen in pictures wearing a white belt. The pictures of him wearing a black belt were him wearing the rank of the Jujitsu styles he learned.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 1/04/2008 12:29pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

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  8. BomberH is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 9:48pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ & Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    POTENTIALLY FAKE 10TH DAN

    While they were living, neither Jigoro Kano nor Gichin Funakoshi ever held rank in their respective styles they "founded". Posthumously, Kano was awarded a 12th Dan by the Kodokan and Funakoshi was awarded 10th Dan by his "organization" (whose name escapes me).
    Tom you are correct Kano went without grade.

    So what do we have on Helio Gracie:

    1. Potentially self graded / graded by friends with lower ranks

    2. Factually incorrect lineage and history (i.e. Maeda = Kodokan not JuJitsu)

    LET THE INQUISITION BEGIN

    Who's going to email this Helio Gracie and ask to see copies of his dan grade certificates 1st through to 10th.
  9. Kistrael is offline
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    Noob: Reloaded

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 10:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT nub, Ex-Tang Soo Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I always thought it would be a matter of politics. Don't give people the same rank you'd give yourself, or a rank easily attainable. If people get to your rank, they'd start second guessing you.
    DIDN'T YOU KNOW?! The Chinese know everything! And they knew it 4,000 years before YOU did!

    "Yes. Yes I am. I'm clearly illiterate and dictating this post to a squadron of several dozen trained jumping beans I've coearced into living on my keyboard, each named after a letter or character, which bounce up and down as I call their names." -JohnnyCache
  10. Askari is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 10:27pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am regularly hearing rumors from people that have trained with him that Helio wears a blue belt to teach. This is as recent as a few years ago at his club in Brazil. This may have changed though as it seems Rorion is very rank conscious.

    The dan ranks in BJJ are a very recent addition to the art, and GJJ has only in the last few weeks given out GJJ Black Belt ranks to non-Brazilians.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
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