MMA guard becoming Judo turtle?

[wavy tiger]

FictionPimp has a good point. If you watch some of the stuff from the earlier days of Pride it was a lot different than the fights we see now, and I think this was at least in part due to judging. Guys would happily pull guard to set up all manner of sweeps/submission attempts without worrying too much about "being on the bottom". Especially guys like Sakurai. They would pull guard and take their time while they broke down their opponent's posture so they could get control and mount some offense. Even if the eventual attempt failed, the guys fighting "properly" from guard could win the round because the judges were able to recognize the fact that the guy "on top" got completely controlled. Plus they had that "fighting spirit and technique" judging system instead of the 10 point system we have now. Don't get me wrong, that was anything but a perfect system, but I'm not sure the 10 point system is right either.

Now, in the UFC you can do the exact same thing, but lose the round because the other guy was "on top" trying to punch. Dana White has even mentioned something to this effect. They need a different standard for MMA judging.

I also think there's a proliferation recently of guys who can actually knock someone out from inside a closed guard. Look at the amount of times Faber has done this for instance. I don't think you saw as much of this in the early days of MMA. I don't think the Guard is becoming the "Turtle", but I do think it might be a symptom of a problem MMA has had in this country since the beginning (remember the days of "I'll pull you down and hold you here for 30minutes" UFC fights?). Basically, my point is that we need a judging system that won't automatically penalize a guy who fights from guard.

[kismasher]

that doesn't make much sense.

the point is that, regardless of scoring, sweeping someone from guard to a mounted position allows a fighter to establish a dominate position and finish the fight. passing guard to get mount is the same situation. the issue of scoring is secondary. i wonder if these sometimes if these guys practice sweeps and passes, and i have no doubt that they do, yet i rarely see a basic sweep even attempted.

the hip bump sweep in the Rollins vs. Koppenhaver (sp?) was the turning point in the fight and allowed Jon to pound the **** out of and finish Rollins.

[Xramlark]

That's the ironic result of efforts to reduce the subjectivity in deciding who is grappling effectively. The guard is automatically a 50/50 position to the officials. The top guy in a guard would get more points because he can just throw punches in bunches and avoid getting caught in a sub. So if you're going to pull guard for offensive purposes, you'd better not take 30 minutes like old UFC or all those punches add up to a decision for the top guy. If you just hold the dude from guard then it's still up to the officials who's controlling who. The way it is scored in the UFC is to encourage (apparent) aggression and if you don't sub, sweep, or improve position (unless you've already got the dude's friggin back) then you're not being aggressive.

[Roidie McDouchebag]

Shitty grapplers abound in MMA. Those that don't suck use the guard effectively.

[Nickeroon1987]

This is what the rubber guard's for. It actually lets you work for submissions without having to have a chin of steel.

[krazy kaju]

OKAY Eddie Bravo.

[Xramlark]

Oh god not t3h Rubb3r.

See what happens when you're a "high" roller?

ED1T::guitar:

[Permalost]

Shitty grapplers abound in MMA. Those that don't suck use the guard effectively.

Go show em how its done.

[Roidie McDouchebag]

I have.

[Lampa]

I have.

A. Where can I see a vid. This isn't a bullshit call by any means, I really want to see how you fight.

B. Were you wearing comically big wrestling boots at the time?