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  1. Kickbox is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2008 10:11pm


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Japan Junkie,
    I agree fully with you. Basically Bruce lee did not certify anyone of his students to become a jeet kune do instructor. I have heard that is why Mr. I. calls his style the JKD concept because bruce told him not to teach groups outside his garage and Inosanto felt that he could just teach the "concept"or the general idea of JKD while he taught kali, and Muay Thai etc. Mr.I. certifies his apprentices in the JKD concept and that's not jeet kune do.
    DrunkenBear,
    I said the same thing in an earlier post. it is obvious that toneloco69 is here to troll Dr.Beasley and nothing more. Toneloco69 keep in mind that the guy you are bashing is a member of the Black Belt Magazine Hall of Fame along with Bruce Lee, Dan Inosanto, Joe Lewis, Daniel Lee, Richard Bustillo. Recently ted Wong and the late larry hartsell were voted into the Black belt magazine hall of fame after Dr.Beasley had already been in for years!
  2. sempaiman is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2008 10:07am


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Was it not Beasely, when the UFC first came about, announced in Black Belt Magazine, that he was going to quit doing JKD and developed an art called "Trap Boxing".
  3. Kickbox is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2008 1:36pm


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sempaiman,
    I have met Dr.Beasley at his Karate College summer camp in Radford, VA. He is highly skilled and can pretty much substitute teach for any of the classes he offers at camp from jujitsu to kickboxing. He's been doing that for 20 years. He told me that he mostly teaches classical martial arts at his job as professor but mostly teaches kickboxing at commercial classes and seminars. He also writes about topics that sell in magazines. He told a class one year that trapboxing was just a name he used to refer to fighting in the clinch position. I don't think it's an art with belt ranks or anything. I know he use to be a sparring partner to Joe Lewis and that Joe Lewis speaks very highly of his fighting ability.
  4. sempaiman is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 9:23am


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbox
    Sempaiman,
    I have met Dr.Beasley at his Karate College summer camp in Radford, VA. He is highly skilled and can pretty much substitute teach for any of the classes he offers at camp from jujitsu to kickboxing. He's been doing that for 20 years. He told me that he mostly teaches classical martial arts at his job as professor but mostly teaches kickboxing at commercial classes and seminars. He also writes about topics that sell in magazines. He told a class one year that trapboxing was just a name he used to refer to fighting in the clinch position. I don't think it's an art with belt ranks or anything. I know he use to be a sparring partner to Joe Lewis and that Joe Lewis speaks very highly of his fighting ability.

    Thanks.
  5. Kickbox is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 9:31am


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The real reason for the letter

    :violent1: :violent1: toneloco69,
    I have been checking around and I uncovered this info. The letter you presented was written by Paula inosanto in 1993. She wrote the letter as a rebutal after Inside Karate magazine published an article by JKD Brotherhood forum owner Paul J. Bax entitled "The return of 'Original jeet kune do". The people she identified in her letter as being students of her husband Dan Inosanto and not under Bruce lee or Bruce Lee's jeet kune do ( called original jeet kune do) in cluding ted Wong, Jerry Poteet etc were interviewed for the article. It was Dr.Beasley that coined the term "Original jeet kune do" as being Bruce Lee's version of JKD and being different from Mr.Inosanto's version of what he called the JKD Concept.
    To make sure that their version of JKD called the JKD Concept was the exclusive version of JKD Paula Inosanto set about trying to defame anyone and everyone that broke ranks and supported the "Original" jeet kune do movement.
    The editor of Inside Kung Fu/Inside Karate would not publishe the letter and that is why Paula and Dan Inosanto distributed the leter at their seminars and that is why the letter eventually showed up on the internet. Politics pure and simple. :violent1: They think that if they embarrase anyone practicing Original jeet kune do then people will think that the jeet kune do concept is the one true version of JKD.
    And now as Japan Junkie pointed out they will have to deal with the all powerful Bruce Lee Foundation who owns the trademark to JKD and the foundation supports original jeet kune do which they have retermed Jun Fan jeet kune do. The BLF sued the Inosanto Academy in court and won all rights to the JKD.
    Hope that sets the record straight.
    In summary you have quoted paula Inosanto as saying Dr.beasley did not practice or train under Mr.Inosanto but Dr.Beasley earned a certificate from Mr.I for 57 hours of practice and training directly under him and Dr.Beasley has the certificate in not the JKD concept but in "jeet kune do" to prove it! So Mrs.I was liying wasn't she?
    Every year there will be beginners that will be shown the Paula Inosanto letter and think it is truthful when is is nothing more than a rebuttal to a magazine article which came out in 1993. It wasn't published because it was false and had no truth.
    I propose that we have an investigation of the people that wrote the letter and the people that put the letter on the internet and the people that use the letter to start a thread. I't just politics and it has been going on for years.:violent1:
  6. Toneloc069 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 10:19am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: No style

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Veritas numquam latet, interitque numquam

    Kickbox,
    Thank you for showing interest in this topic. The information presented is easily assessible on the internet. If discussing a topic that is line with the websites own description is a problem for you, perhaps you would be better suited at another website?

    The desperity in the information available is there for all to make up their own mind about.


    I have never owned a jeet kune do school or taught an art/style and called it jeet kune do. I have however published a number of books/article on JKD.
    This statement has been demonstrated to not be entirely accurate.

    I would be thankful of you to please not be disrespectful towards Paula or any other member of the Inosanto family in this thread.














    http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...ad.php?t=21342
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 10:20am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbox
    tonelocO69,
    Did you join just to post this info? Go to the current www.radford.edu site and you will discover that any and all "PHED" classes have been dropped and are no longer a valid reference. You need to update your info. According to the Radford site only classes with "ESHE" prefix are being taught. Of course you are referencing a 'koncepts'website with a letter dated 1993, so you need to check into the new century.
    Actually you are wrong in this part. Even if it is old information it is posted to add a paper trail of the Man's claims. Before you fly off the handle yes, it is part of an investigation. I'm not agreeing with tone just pointing out that you are wrong on this point.

    Anyway, what it you point tone?
    PHED 135. Jeet Kune Do. (1)
    PHED 136. Tae Kwon Do. (1)
    PHED 137. Jiu Jitsu. (1)
    PHED 330. Advanced Karate. (1)
    PHED 361. The Martial Arts. (3)
    PHED 362. Principles of Self Defense. (3) Semester hours earned in the martial arts option may be counted toward a physical education minor. Students may further enhance the option by completing the commercial fitness concentration.
    Send Mail to:phed-web@runet.edu
    Now here we go with the semantics argument. You fail. Let's take a small point stated in an above interview or web explanation:
    He teaches an amalgam of styles. One of the amalgam styles is JKD. Now the fact is to complete his program in MARTIAL ARTS you have a course in JKD.
    However I have never taught an art or style and called it JKD. - Jerry Beasley
    Bachelor of Science degree Physical Education, hmmmm interesting it is not called a B.S. in JKD.

    You can Minor in Martial Arts Instruction again it isn't a minor in JKD. So, no you haven't proved anything concerning Beasley ever calling a style that he taught JKD.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 1/04/2008 10:30am at .
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 10:33am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Toneloc069
    Kickbox,
    Thank you for showing interest in this topic. The information presented is easily assessible on the internet. If discussing a topic that is line with the websites own description is a problem for you, perhaps you would be better suited at another website?

    The desperity in the information available is there for all to make up their own mind about.




    This statement has been demonstrated to not be entirely accurate.

    I would be thankful of you to please not be disrespectful towards Paula or any other member of the Inosanto family in this thread.














    http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...ad.php?t=21342
    Please understand the rules before you ask someone to leave the website.


    You still haven't posted what you are doing with this investigation. All you have done is cut and paste which, is a big no no. You need to outline your investigation, bullet point what you are trying to accomplish, get proof, and present valid arguments.

    You have yet to do any of this minus a bunch of hearsay.
  9. Toneloc069 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 10:35am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: No style

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I may have been inaccurate about his thesis, and for that I apologize to Mr. Beasley and everyone else who might have been mislead by my post.

    However, I did recognize his doctorate.

    Additionally, Training with Joe Lewis does not make him a JKD guy. Joe Lewis is recognizably one of the greatest Karate Fighters of the 20th century, but he is not a JKD instructor. Where is the evidence that Bruce Lee ever certified Lewis to teach in the first place?

    And Beasley's link to Guro Inosanto was limited to attendance to a few seminars:

    Quote: From Martial Arts Koncepts
    Quote:
    In numerous articles Dr. B states that he trained in JKD and Kali with Guro Dan Inosanto over a five year period (1983-1988). According to Dan and Paula Inosanto, they did see Dr. B in attendance at several seminars and camps. But they are both quick to point out that Dr. B was there taking notes and that they never once saw him train. [Sitting on the sidelines of a seminar and taking notes is not what most consider a valid method of "experiencing" a training method or system.]
    Refererring to the fact that he has published multiple books and articles is almost humorous. Yes he has been published, his publication history is quite prolific, but he still doesn't have any sort of legitimate certification to teach JKD, not to mention run a JKD organization. I could quite possibly write a few articles, maybe even a book or two, on "Genetic abnormalities in Arizona Pygmie Populations" but it wouldn't make me a geneticist.

    Dr. Beasley also started a Ninjitsu organization back when Ninjas where more popular than they are now. At that time he had absolutely ZERO experience in the art of Ninjitsu. He is a martial art carpet-bagger claiming credibility through illegitimate ties to true authority.
    I have known Jerry Beasley since around 1992. That was a year before I began training with Guro Inosanto. Here is my opinion, and my opinion alone:

    Jerry is a good instructor of Karate and Tae Kwon Do. He created his own system called "trapboxing" and he did in fact establish something he referred to as "Sport Ninjutsu" back when nijutsu was in its heyday. What can I say...he's a good businessman.

    I also taught at his Karate College in 1998. I focused on Filipino Martial Arts since he was running a "JKD Instructor's Training" segment himself. By focusing on Kali, we were not in conflict. I did however sit in on the "JKD Instructor's Training" for a little over an hour of the scheduled two hours. It consisted entirely, and I mean ENTIRELY, of throwing a front snap kick. This was not done, in my opinion, in a way that would have benefitted instructors, nor was it at a level suited to anyone ready to become an instructor. It was great material on the front kick, and it had some concepts regarding the five ways of attack, but again, not necessarily instructor level JKD.

    I know of some credible sources that have told me Beasley taped Sifu Inosanto at seminars and lunches (which he used to do frequently with groups of seminar attendees) without Inosanto's permission, and then attempted to use those tapes as information in his books and articles. I have never asked Beasley, so this is hearsay, but the source is as credible as they come. I also was told that he falsified information about himself as though it were from Sifu Inosanto by the same source. I don't know if this is true either, but again, I trust the source.

    Joe Lewis was a full contact karate bad-ass. He was a pioneer. He may have been the only full-contact champ ever trained by Bruce Lee. That has no relevance whatsoever to the issue. I have been trained by a LOT of people outside my system. I even use some of their material fairly well. I was trained, for example, by Daniel Duby, one of the first (if not the first) to have a commercial savate school in the US. I have scored plenty of savate kicks, some in thai boxing competitions. But I would not say that makes me a savate instructor under Daniel Duby, because that simply wouldn't be true. Joe Lewis may fight very well. He may have trained with Bruce Lee on a few occasions. But he is not a certified JKD instructor under anyone recognized by Bruce Lee. Therefore, it's hard to say how he's authorized to certify others.

    Having been certified by Inosanto, Paul Vunak, and Brad Garrison, and at one time by Harley Elmore (an instructor under the late Terry Gibson), and having roughly 24 years of experience in these arts, I can say, again from my own standpoint, that I would call Jerry Beasley a good Japanese Karate and Korean Tae Kwon Do instructor. I wouldn't say he teaches JKD. He might use some JKD ideas to get the other arts across, but that's not the same thing.

    If I were you, I would look elsewhere, or at least take his information as one possible interpretation from a traditional martial artist's standpoint. it would be good to look at the Inosanto lineage, or even some of the "original JKD" crowd if that's more in line with what you're after.

    No offense intended to Jerry or his people. They are good enough at what they do. I just don't really see how it's JKD.



    Dr. Jerry Beasleys response.


    Hello,
    My name is Jerry Beasley and I am reporting for duty. Let me start by saying that I have never owned a JKD school or ever taught JKD as an art/system or style. My market concerns karate/tae kwon do/kickboxing programs. I have written extensively on the subject of JKD.I have promoted JKD camps. In fact I started the OJKD versus JKDC controversy. Too bad I can't go back and change that. Here's how things began...
    In 1982 a magazine publisher contracted with me to write a Bruce Lee book. I was given a contact with Larry Hartsel in Charlotte NC. I was invited to meet Dan Inosanto and train at the seminar. I enjoyed meeting Dan. He and I had a lot in common as teachers. I spent a lot of time with him. After I published the first article on the Charlotte NC JKD school for Official Karate in about 1983/84 I became somewhat of a local JKD hero for the concepts guys. They knew I could get them in print. I was invited to attend a lot of seminars/camps. I promoted JKD seminars for Larry, Graciella and others in the JKDC camp. I always had full access with Dan, Larry and the promoter. I trained not for apprentice certification but for knowledge. Dan knew I was writing a book. I met Paula in 1984 in Chicago when she had black hair and waited tables. By 1987 Paula had taken control of Dan. I was lucky to get his attention while training at the seminar let alone have lunch. I dropped out of the seminar circuit to complete the book. No secretly taped discussions. I still have the interviews.
    When the book was complete in 1987 Dan, Paula and I rode together from the lake photo shoot in NC (photos are on their website and my book) and Dan told me how much he liked what I had to say. The Inosanto's received a, from the publisher, copy of the manuscript to read and make changes. The book was dedicated to Dan and had an endorsement from Dan on the back cover. After the book was published in 1988 all doors were closed to me in the JKDC program.
    Mike Brewer ( you were an exellent teacher at Karate College and we would look forward to having you back) this is the first time I have heard the gossip about secret tapings...not true! I did hear that Dan/Paula was displeased about a photo caption that read "The Pope of JKD" beside Dan's photo. At the time quite a few of his people mentioned this nickname to me. I thought he approved of it. Also I heard that the Silat people were unhappy about a caption that indicated that silat was now a part of JKD. No one called me. They just talked about me behind my back. Kind of like this thread.
    At any rate I promoted a JKDC camp before Karate College in about 1989/90. I employed the apprentice/associate instructors and bypassed Larry/Dan etc. I learned later that some resented being left out. By then I could not contact Dan, Paula would not let me talk to him. I was writing a column for Karate International and began to introduce non -concepts instructors.I introduced the idea of an "Original" art. My second JKD book came out in 1992 which no doubt sealed my fate as an outcast from the concepts organization. Keep in mind that I was the first to write a book on the concepts method. I helped them they just didn't return the favor.
    Then in 1993 I was blindsided by the Paula hate letter. All the magazine editors knew me ( I had published articles for them) so there was no way the letter would be published. Meanwhile a guy by the name of Michael Krivka was hired by a local kali instructor to come to Radford and give a seminar. Krivka hit himself in the eye with a whip at the beginning of the class and had to go to the hospital. I said something clever/rude about the event and Krivka took it personal. He began to spread gossip and lied about having a conversation with me. We passed notes and insults like little girls. His buddy Patty Finley got into the act. I had my attorney contact Paula and Krivka. The cost of taking them to court for libel and slander was too high.
    As someone mentioned in this thread I pulled Joe Lewis into the JKD battel . I wrote articles about Joe and Bruce. Joe is the best fighter ever to train with Bruce. That statement, although true, irritates some. Joe is his own man with his own art and fan club and has no interest, except when people pay him, in talking about Bruce. And yes Joe did give me a letter in January 1993 certifying me to teach the JKD Bruce taught him. That was after training with Joe for 10 years! If you think that Bruce taught Joe little about JKD then have no concern. I teach and write about JKD as a subject matter not unlike a JKDC instructor might teach a section on silat/wing chun/savate etc.
    If I could go back and remove my name from JKD history over the last 20 years I shure would. I have turned down several requests by editors to write about JKD.

    Now for ninjutsu. I am a career martial artist. I research, write about and teach martial arts as a professor. My interest started only when I was contracted by Black Belt magazine to write an article about Andrew Adams who wrote the first book on ninjutsu called "Ninja: Invisible Assassins". Adams was a former college professor from southwest VA (sounds familar). Ninjutsu became popular in 1980 as a secret art. Karate became popular in 1950's as a secret art. When the karate groups began tournament competition in the late 1950's/early 1960's the art began to grow and spread across the states.. If karate had done nothing more than remain as a secret art for breaking bricks, boards etc. it would have vanished from popularity within four or five years. Such was the case for ninjutsu." If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it." I told the ninja masters that without a sport competition they would find only a passing interest to the American public. I had learned from history. I created a sport for them to participate. I promoted sport ninjutsu seminars and published articles. They refused to participate. Too deadly they said. Too bad I said. By 1985 they were gone, doomed to repeat history. Vanished to appearences at halloween, an in movies. They should have listened to a college professor.
    I'll answer any questions you may have. Some of the members on this thread know me and it would have been nice had you informed me that I was being toasted. Thanks for the members who helped out. www.aikia.net
    Dr.Jerry Beasley
    Black Belt Magazine Hall of Fame
    Instructor of the Year 2000
    http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...ad.php?t=12064
  10. Toneloc069 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2008 10:39am

    Bullshido Newbie
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Please understand the rules before you ask someone to leave the website.


    You still haven't posted what you are doing with this investigation. All you have done is cut and paste which, is a big no no. You need to outline your investigation, bullet point what you are trying to accomplish, get proof, and present valid arguments.

    You have yet to do any of this minus a bunch of hearsay.
    Thank you for the response. And your points are with merit. The information was presented for others to make up their own minds about, not presented in a manner as to sway the readers opinion one way or another. Thus, the lack of comments on my part and the presentation of numerous sources from different sides of the topic.


    However we will have to agree to disagree on the JKD class at RU.
    Last edited by Toneloc069; 1/04/2008 10:46am at .
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