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  1. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Submitting 1d6 Investigators per round

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2007 6:21pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, adding glutamine to the shopping list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    You can look into some prohormones...they can be pricey, but most quality products will help get results. I've done 4-andro and DHEA cycles with noticeable results in recovery time and workout intensity.
    Any specific recommendations or further info on these? I basically know nothing about them.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
  2. HongKongFukYu is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/31/2007 11:11pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    Okay, adding glutamine to the shopping list.



    Any specific recommendations or further info on these? I basically know nothing about them.
    IMO Pro-hormones are a lose-lose situation...they're not as poweful as real steroids, but they seem to suppress natural testosterone production the same way, requiring similar PCT. I would avoid pro-hormones like the plague, regardless of their legal status.

    If you're interested in stuff that will boost free testosterone and potentially total testosterone, I would seriously encourage you to look at Designer Supplements ActivaTe Xtreme. By look into it, I mean check out the various studies and the bloodwork results.

    More here:
    http://www.designersupps.com/static_site/activatex.php

    Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but ontop of the above, I would look into:

    1) EFA's (Essential Fatty Acids)...Udo's Choice is outstanding. Udo's choice is a far more complete collection of fats that either flax or fish oil alone...and it doesn't taste nearly as nasty as either. It blends well with salad dressing on baby spinach. :new_spira
    2) HIGH doses (double the label) of Glucosamine/Chondroiton
    3) Jay Robb egg protein
    4) HMB if you can afford it...it didn't live up to the initial hype, but several studies have confirmed that it can prevent catabolism, which is one of the best features of anabolic steroids...it's more about the prevention of muscle loss during intense training than actual building.

    Based on the previous posts, I think I need to start using Glutamine...my previous understanding was that the majority of glutamine was destroyed before it was utilized in the intestinal track. However, EVERYONE that I know that uses glutamine swears by it, so maybe I need to change my tune.

    My statements above on pro-hormones come from bloodwork...after seeing bloodwork results, I couldn't be convinced of anything good could come of them.

    EDIT: A couple of things I forgot...out of all the above, I would recommend the ActivaTe Xtreme last...it's really the icing on the cake to a solid diet and good nutrional supplmentation, but a great addition nonetheless.

    One thing I would also recommend based on what you said about whey and the fact that you are going to start taking more supplements:

    Digestive enzymes.

    If you have a Whole Foods near you, I would recommend "Wholezyme". It works very well for digesting protein...ALL kinds of protein, milk products etc. In short, it helps your stomach with things that can bother it. The only downside is that the two pill dose they recommend doesn't work all the time (depends on what you're trying to digest)

    When I start using supps or food that my stomach is not use to (high fiber, EFA's, milk proteins), I take 4-6 pills immediately after the meal for the first month and then work down to two as my tolerance for the new food/supplements increases.

    Beyond making your stomach feel better, they help breakdown protein thereby making it available for use quicker. In short, digestive enzymes *may* allow you to consume whey protein. If not, they'll still be useful with egg protein.

    If you don't have a Whole Foods near you, GNC and like places should have a complete digestive enzyme complex.

    One other great thing about digestive enzymes...

    Specific types of digestive enzymes (bromelain comes to mind) fall into classification known as proteolytic enzymes. Proteolytic means to break down protein, but fortunately this doesn't seem to include muscle mass. It DOES seem to include bruises and inflammation. Bruises and inflammation occur because protein gathers at the site and these enzymes help aid the breakdown of this stuff.

    A better explanation (with commercial interests to be fair, but a good explanation):

    "Reduced inflammation: Inflammation is a natural response of the body to injury. However, excessive inflammation retards the healing process. Proteolytic enzymes reduce inflammation by neutralizing the bio-chemicals of inflammation (bradykinins and pro-inflammatory eicosanoids) to levels where the synthesis, repair and regeneration of injured tissues can take place. Reducing inflammation can have immediate impact on improved heart health, cancer prevention and recovery, and Alzheimer's prevention. It also helps speed up recovery from sprains, strains, fractures, bruises, contusions, surgery -- and arthritis."

    From:
    http://www.jonbarron.org/newsletters/03/11-24-2003.php

    To add, a KILLER anti-inflammatory, especially combined with ice is Tumeric capsules with Bromelain.
    Last edited by HongKongFukYu; 1/01/2008 2:08am at .
  3. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2008 2:24am

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HongKongFukYu
    1) EFA's (Essential Fatty Acids)...Udo's Choice is outstanding. Udo's choice is a far more complete collection of fats that either flax or fish oil alone...and it doesn't taste nearly as nasty as either. It blends well with salad dressing on baby spinach. :new_spira
    I do already take fish oil, but I'll look into these.

    2) HIGH doses (double the label) of Glucosamine/Chondroiton
    Already take this, and have ever since I started grappling.

    3) Jay Robb egg protein
    That's actually the specific egg protein I use.

    4) HMB if you can afford it...it didn't live up to the initial hype, but several studies have confirmed that it can prevent catabolism, which is one of the best features of anabolic steroids...it's more about the prevention of muscle loss during intense training than actual building.
    This is interesting, and I'll read up on it more. It sounds like it'd be particularly useful for minimizing the catabolizing effects of long BJJ training sessions.

    One thing I would also recommend based on what you said about whey and the fact that you are going to start taking more supplements:

    Digestive enzymes.

    If you have a Whole Foods near you, I would recommend "Wholezyme". It works very well for digesting protein...ALL kinds of protein, milk products etc. In short, it helps your stomach with things that can bother it. The only downside is that the two pill dose they recommend doesn't work all the time (depends on what you're trying to digest)

    When I start using supps or food that my stomach is not use to (high fiber, EFA's, milk proteins), I take 4-6 pills immediately after the meal for the first month and then work down to two as my tolerance for the new food/supplements increases.

    Beyond making your stomach feel better, they help breakdown protein thereby making it available for use quicker. In short, digestive enzymes *may* allow you to consume whey protein. If not, they'll still be useful with egg protein.

    If you don't have a Whole Foods near you, GNC and like places should have a complete digestive enzyme complex.

    One other great thing about digestive enzymes...

    Specific types of digestive enzymes (bromelain comes to mind) fall into classification known as proteolytic enzymes. Proteolytic means to break down protein, but fortunately this doesn't seem to include muscle mass. It DOES seem to include bruises and inflammation. Bruises and inflammation occur because protein gathers at the site and these enzymes help aid the breakdown of this stuff.

    A better explanation (with commercial interests to be fair, but a good explanation):

    "Reduced inflammation: Inflammation is a natural response of the body to injury. However, excessive inflammation retards the healing process. Proteolytic enzymes reduce inflammation by neutralizing the bio-chemicals of inflammation (bradykinins and pro-inflammatory eicosanoids) to levels where the synthesis, repair and regeneration of injured tissues can take place. Reducing inflammation can have immediate impact on improved heart health, cancer prevention and recovery, and Alzheimer's prevention. It also helps speed up recovery from sprains, strains, fractures, bruises, contusions, surgery -- and arthritis."

    From:
    http://www.jonbarron.org/newsletters/03/11-24-2003.php

    To add, a KILLER anti-inflammatory, especially combined with ice is Tumeric capsules with Bromelain.
    Interesting. With the exception of whey protein supplements don't seem to have much of an effect on my stomach, but I'll keep this in mind. It'll depend on how expensive they are combined with everything else I'm looking into.


    Thanks a bunch for all the suggestions, guys. Supplements are the area of fitness my knowledge most lags on, and I appreciate the help.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
  4. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2008 12:22pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    Okay, adding glutamine to the shopping list.



    Any specific recommendations or further info on these? I basically know nothing about them.
    They are basically designer chemicals that the body converts into testosterone. Quantity does not equal results, though. Timing and bioavailability are the real measure of the success. YMMV.


    DHEA and 4-andro are the only ones I've done. PCT can be an issue, but I have found (thanks to my buddy, a research pharmacist) that most people who have problems with test levels post-cycle are doing 3-5 times the recommended amount. I've never been brave enough (read: stupid) to triple the dosage on anything, which may in fact limit results, and I still noticed recovery improvements and better energy levels mid-workout. Of course, I did NOT get "huge, ripped muscles and EXPLOSIVE PUMPS!!!!!" as advertised, but I think they did the job I required of them. Namely having more better workouts more often.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  5. HongKongFukYu is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2008 12:27pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Scrapper, if you've had good results with pro-hormones I'd be very curious to see what you think of a 6 week stint with Designer Supplements ActivaTe Xtreme...I know I sound like a broken record with this product, and I have zero ties to them. In my (and many others) experience it SMOKES pro-hormones.

    Highly recommended is to take a hormone profile before and 6 weeks after. Very interesting results have been seen.

    What's everyone's opinion on creatine monohydrate or other forms? I've avoided it due to the fact that I feel like I need to drink 2 gallons of water when I'm using it to avoid overheating (particularly in the summer when I'm running outside). Also, the confusion of taking it with/without caffeine (I can't give up my morning coffee, period).

    That and the fact that it upsets my stomach. Is anyone who's doing BJJ in favor of this stuff?
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2008 1:22pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You mean in favor of creatine?

    Purely annecdotal, I "feel" creatine by itself helps me for heavy lifting. For BJJ, not so much. NO-related products has helped me more for rolling, specially products like NOXPLODE.

    I'm currently not taking either (I ran out of both and have been too lazy to go get more.) My experience may be placebo, don't know. I did short experiments where I would take creatine by itself for 6-8 weeks, then NOXPLODE by itself for a similar amount of time. And I graded the results by how I felt in terms of energy and stamina.

    If someone does lifting regularly (either by itself or in addition to MA), I'd say take both. Otherwise, stick to NO. Other people may experience differently. For example, [url=http://www.grapplearts.com/Basic-Weight-Lifting.htm]the basic weight-lifting page from grapplearts.com] mentions that creatine works. It is not clear, however, if this in relatio nto weight lifting or for actual grappling.

    Best thing is to get quality creatine and try it for 6-8 weeks (something long enough to actually see some benefits). If you cannot stomach the dosage (like me), just split it up throughout the day, with plenty of fiber and water in your diet. Forget the "loading" period; that's bullcrap designed to make you buy more ;)
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. HongKongFukYu is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2008 1:38pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    You mean in favor of creatine?

    Purely annecdotal, I "feel" creatine by itself helps me for heavy lifting. For BJJ, not so much. NO-related products has helped me more for rolling, specially products like NOXPLODE.

    I'm currently not taking either (I ran out of both and have been too lazy to go get more.) My experience may be placebo, don't know. I did short experiments where I would take creatine by itself for 6-8 weeks, then NOXPLODE by itself for a similar amount of time. And I graded the results by how I felt in terms of energy and stamina.

    If someone does lifting regularly (either by itself or in addition to MA), I'd say take both. Otherwise, stick to NO. Other people may experience differently. For example, [url=http://www.grapplearts.com/Basic-Weight-Lifting.htm]the basic weight-lifting page from grapplearts.com] mentions that creatine works. It is not clear, however, if this in relatio nto weight lifting or for actual grappling.

    Best thing is to get quality creatine and try it for 6-8 weeks (something long enough to actually see some benefits). If you cannot stomach the dosage (like me), just split it up throughout the day, with plenty of fiber and water in your diet. Forget the "loading" period; that's bullcrap designed to make you buy more ;)
    Ok, I LOVED NoXplode. I used it when I was doing kettlebell circuits (similar to Crossfit). Absolutely loved it...except for one thing...insomnia. One scoop didn't have that "kick" and two or above, and I'm up all night. also, it also seemed to upset my stomach regardless of how much water I drink.

    Another supplment that people swear by as an alternative to NoXplode is Man Body Octane. I have a bottle I have yet to open...it's supposed to be a NO booster as well as a lactic acid buffer (I *think* due to it's beta alanine content). Truthfully it was an impulse purchase but I'm going to start using it this week.

    Also it has zero caffeine and or stimulants...then again that's one of the things I love about NoXplode. That **** has pushed me through some workouts that I absolutely did not want to do.

    Now that I think about it, I've tried both creatine and NoXplode, so now I plan to give Man Body Octane a whirl for what's to come (kettlebell circuits, running 3x a week, and BJJ 2-3 times a week). I'd probably go back to creatine when I go back to "traditional" weight training (powerlifting style; bench, squat, deadlifts), but I'm looking for different results (my cardio sucks and that's priority #1) this year and I really like the crossfit/kettlebell style of weight lifting for now.

    EDIT: Intersting review of Man Body Octane...not sure how much stock I put in it, but pretty thorough if the guy doesn't actually have ties to the company:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=948395
    Last edited by HongKongFukYu; 1/01/2008 1:48pm at .
  8. Jhemsley is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2008 4:02pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog

    2) HIGH doses (double the label) of Glucosamine/Chondroiton


    Already take this, and have ever since I started grappling.
    What does this do? Is it a recovery aid - and why specifically after grappling?

    I'm also a supplment noob, so please bear with the basic questions largely meant to minimize the hours it takes me searching body building sites, wikipedia and honest to god medical research to feel comfortable with paying to to put something else in my body I can barely pronounce.
  9. HongKongFukYu is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2008 9:15am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhemsley
    What does this do? Is it a recovery aid - and why specifically after grappling?

    I'm also a supplment noob, so please bear with the basic questions largely meant to minimize the hours it takes me searching body building sites, wikipedia and honest to god medical research to feel comfortable with paying to to put something else in my body I can barely pronounce.
    Hi Jhemsley, the Glucosamine and Chondroitin combo is a joint support formula.
  10. Asriel is offline
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    I'd like to leave this world like I came into it: Screaming, naked & covered in someone else's blood

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2008 10:25am

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     Style: Muay Thai (BJJ hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have found that Creatine helps my BJJ. My muscles don't fatigue as quickly and my body doesn't ache anywhere near as much the next day.
    " The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus

    " I shocked him with my skills on the ice becuase Wing Chun is great for hockey fighting." - 'Sifu' Milt Wallace

    "Besides, as you might already know (from Virus, for example) - there's only 1 wing chun and it sucks big time" - Tonuzaba

    "Even when I'm promising mayhem and butt-chicanery, I'm generally posting with a smile on my face." - Sochin101

    "That said, if he blocked my hip on a drop nage, I would extend my leg into a drop tai Otoshi and slam him so hard his parents would die." - MTripp

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