? for those knowledgeable about (legal) supplements

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 12/30/2007 10:18pm

Originally Posted by Emevas

How is your nutrition before bed? Most folks neglect this area, whereas I've found that eating well before bed really helped me put on the pounds. Some slow absorbing protein and carbs (cottage cheese and a whole grain bagel, or cassean shakes) will do the trick.

Why before bed? What benefits are afforded by this?

(Sorry to briefly hijack your thread, Fatherdog.)

And are things like sardines helpful, e.g. for protein plus so-called 'good oils'? (Plus they make you smell sexy.)

**Poop Loops** · Posted On: 12/30/2007 10:25pm

Before bed because that's 8 hours where your body is still working and recuperating, but you can't refuel to give it more stuff to work with.

Just lying there still makes your body give off like 100 watts I believe, so you still need to give it something.

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 12/30/2007 10:28pm

I often eat before I sleep, but my worry has always been that I'm not burning it off.

**Emevas** · Posted On: 12/30/2007 10:33pm

Originally Posted by DAYoung

I often eat before I sleep, but my worry has always been that I'm not burning it off.

If you do heavy resistance training, you'll need it.

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 12/30/2007 10:35pm

Originally Posted by Emevas

If you do heavy resistance training, you'll need it.

I suspect our standards of 'heavy' are quite different.

But point taken.

**Emevas** · Posted On: 12/30/2007 10:38pm

Heavy is a percentage of max, not total weight. Don't sweat it.

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 12/30/2007 10:49pm

Originally Posted by fatherdog

Everything I've read on glutamine has showed no concrete benefits for bodybuilding unless you're already deficient in it via your diet, so I've been disinclined to add another set of pills based largely on anecdotal evidence thus far.

As far as BCAA's go, it's my understanding that egg protein contains a full complement of them, so since I'm already taking that post workout, plus a half pound of (organic free range grass-fed) beef most days, I'm not sure if additional supplementation of them is worthwhile.

IIRC correctly, glutamine does not have effect on weight lifting men when ingested short-term. Long-term glutamine intake has been demonstrated to reduce breakdown. Same with BCAAs.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that recommended values of mostly anything are ridiculously low - for example, the very same Vitamin C supplement you are taking, EmergenC, it has 16 times the RDV. And athletes have been know to take 3 times that amount and more.

The moment you put your body to work in sports, the moment you stop being sedentary, your diet alone will not provide all the nutrients you need. You won't die or stop functioning, but you will not function as optimal as you could. And since your goal is to recover from an injury, this is even more important to take note.

Your body already contains glutamine, and it is the supplementation of it that allows your body not to run out of it when you work out. Not to mention the anti-inflamatory properties of glutamine when supplemented.

I don't really take that many pills. I bought a big container of tasteless glutamine powder. Either I add 20g on my protein shake or on the frozen fruit and peanut butter smootie I make in the mornings. Incredibly convenient and incospicous.

In your case, I would just mix 2 tablespoons (10g) in a glass of EmergenC. You wouldn't even notice it's there.

My BCAA pills, I either take them throughout the day, or open them and pour their contents into the smooties. Ideally one would have to take them by themselves on an empty stomach, but life is not perfect. I just say **** it, and I take one pill at a time, 7 in total during the day. I take one with my tea, or with my water, with my smootie, when I'm eating.

If I wait to take the pills in a batch, of course, it would be a nightmare. One has to develop the proper plan of eating and supplementing a day to make sure you don't have to face yet another batch of pills in front of the half a dozen you have to take.

It's all in the planning. I strongly suggest you reconcider on glutamine.

**Fighting Cephalopod** · Posted On: 12/30/2007 11:10pm

Originally Posted by Teh El Macho

The moment you put your body to work in sports, the moment you stop being sedentary, your diet alone will not provide all the nutrients you need. You won't die or stop functioning, but you will not function as optimal as you could. And since your goal is to recover from an injury, this is even more important to take note.

Your body already contains glutamine, and it is the supplementation of it that allows your body not to run out of it when you work out. Not to mention the anti-inflamatory properties of glutamine when supplemented.

I'm not disputing that when you engage in heavy exercise you need more than the RDA of nutrients; I'm saying that when you consider that over the course of an average week I go through two four-pound chickens and 3 pounds of beef, I'm not sure that the amount of glutamine I already intake through food is sufficiently low that additional supplementation would be helpful. There aren't a lot of hard figures I've seen on glutamine as applied to someone with a high protein diet or at what point additional glutamine intake ceases having notable effect.

**Jhemsley** · Posted On: 12/31/2007 11:21am

I started taking Glutamine, wasn't taking anything other than a mutli-vitamin.

I saw immediate improvement in both recovery time and minimization of DOMS.

As far as glutamine's usefulness via data, it has been shown to improve recovery time in injury - both at a macro and micro level. Since heavy lifting is essentially premediated injury, that was enough for me to give it a try. Its cheap too - and I'm not doing anywhere near the levels TEM is doing, so for me its a fairly neglibable expense.

My though would be to try it - its cheap and there are no negative side effects. You might not see a difference - but the cost of trying it is neglibable. 90 days @ 5 grams a day is about $25.00. 15 grams a day would still be less than $25 a month. I've just been doing 5 grams and been happy with it.

**Scrapper** · Posted On: 12/31/2007 12:09pm

Originally Posted by fatherdog

Currently, I'm 28 years old, I'm eating at a caloric surplus and getting 1g/lb of protein per day. (No ****...I've seen you eat!) I've started being very rigorous about going to bed early and am getting between eight and nine hours of sleep a night. I'm taking creatine, glucosamine, and a zinc/magnesium supplement before bed. I've cut drinking to only weekends and have seriously cut down on the amount. (This I'll believe when I see it...or is this perhaps the end of an era?)

Other than that, it sounds like you have the right idea already. Supplement protein and creatine, maximize your gym time and be sure to get adequate rest. You can look into some prohormones...they can be pricey, but most quality products will help get results. I've done 4-andro and DHEA cycles with noticeable results in recovery time and workout intensity. DOn't believe the hype with these things though, they help a little, but they are not magic growing beans.