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  1. Rhea_IR is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2007 3:47pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujitsu, BJJ - injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Adapting throws to no-gi.

    As a complete novice (and I freely admit this, so please play nice) I was wondering which are the best throws to adapt from judo and jujitsu for use in BJJ and vale tudo, which we started a few months ago.
    Should I concentrate on the ones I am best at - for me this is generally sacrifice throws - or go for something a bit simpler, like leg sweeps, since it's about practicality and not looking fantastic?

    If I do use throws like stomach (where I usually wind so I'm on top in a mount), how do you do this without a gi, since it usually involves grabbing onto something like the lapels.
    Last edited by Rhea_IR; 12/30/2007 4:00pm at .
  2. Mdrnsamurai is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2007 4:11pm


     Style: Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are several techniques that adapt well to No Gi Techniques. Several Sweeps and almost every Hip Technique. It depends on what particular Technique you are looking for.

    Train Hard, Stay Safe,
    Good Luck

    Combat Judo Academy
    Scarola BJJ
  3. Rhea_IR is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2007 4:21pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujitsu, BJJ - injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Luckily, our JJ club never believed in holding onto the gi, unless it was necessary to the throw (like a gi or lapel throw) because it's kind of useless to rely on it. in case you have something that will rip to pieces on the other person.
    Is keeping throws of mine that would score ippon a good idea, as I'm sure you'd want the person on their back so you can get a stronger position to start a ground game?
    Are there any that are particularly dangerous for landing in someone's guard?
  4. Blue Negation is offline

    Woke up in the mortuary

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2007 6:47pm


     Style: Judo, Sub wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ouchi gari and sometimes kouchi gari can be troublesome but can be adapted to avoid landing in full guard at least.

    There are a few more where you land on them with your back to them (don't do those)

    Just use your common sense.
  5. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2007 11:55pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    grab their hair and throw them like in my avatar. :D

    but seriously, i've worked on this problem quite a bit. as a judoka, i wanted to be able to apply the throws i train in judo to either wrestling or MMA.

    here's a few tips:

    1. learn how to shoot correctly. singles and doubles are far, far too effective to overlook or look down on. consider them just as basic and essential as o-goshi. if you don't have anyone to teach you this, ask in gitmo, buy a video, whatever.

    2. sleeve grips can be approximated by grabbing behind the elbow or using an overhook. be careful with the overhook not to let your opponent grab too deeply and control you. basically, understand the ins and outs of the over/under position and learn how to literally tip things in your favor. if you can crunch their posture in the over/under, you're in a great place for hip throws.

    3. collar grips can be approximated by grabbing behind the neck, but i rarely try to do this. from there i think you're better off wrapping your arm around their head for koshi-guruma or reaching across their back to their opposite lat, where i like to do harai-goshi-makikomi. just make sure you don't give up your back when you do this.. it's more dangerous than a lot of other grips you can take.

    4. get double unders at every possible opportunity, then drag them in a circle and sweep with okuri-ashi-barai. it works wonders. if that stops working, use a crackback or a combination of the crackback and o-uchi-gari (or o-soto-gake). double unders are the #1 grip to have, and you need to aggressively break them down as soon as you get them, because you're almost guaranteed a takedown if you take advantage of it.

    5. don't grip like you're walking your grandma across the street. you need to get them as close and as tight to you as possible and throw *immediately* when the opportunity arises. people are a lot slicker without the gi, and they will quickly find a way out of whatever position you've put them in. break down their posture and throw them before they return to a strong and stable stance.

    and as for your questions: tomoe-nage/stomach throw will get your ass beat. don't do it on anyone who knows how to grapple, unless you know how to grapple better than them. this goes extra for without the gi, where, you guessed it, you have no collar to grip.

    sacrifice throws: you can hit a nice lateral drop/uki-waza from the over/under if you do it right and from a nice tight grip. if you train in a cage, it works awesomely if you push them up against the wall to set it up. :) otherwise i would say to concentrate on other throws, because sacrifice throws are too high-risk for my taste.

    the most common judo throws i see being used in MMA are ashi-waza: okuri-ashi-barai, ko-uchi-gari, o-uchi-gari, o-soto-gake, etc. if you want effectiveness without flash, learn those.
  6. Longhorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2007 1:58am


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i would also add harai goshi from an over/under grip, and an uchi mata counter to someone trying to do an outside leg trip/crack back (karo's got a lil instructional out there w/ this).
  7. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/31/2007 2:37am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Longhorn
    i would also add harai goshi from an over/under grip, and an uchi mata counter to someone trying to do an outside leg trip/crack back (karo's got a lil instructional out there w/ this).
    both good points. to the OP: youtube karo parisyan. watch with interest. :)
  8. Rhea_IR is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2008 2:07pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujitsu, BJJ - injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmm, very interesting!
    You're right about the sacrifice stuff, but it can be fun to just pull off sometimes. I did figure out a way of doing it without the gi, but I'm not exactly going to use it.
    Just out of interest, what is "okuri-ashi-barai"? I'm meaning the "Okuri" in front of it, I haven't heard that term.
  9. madmagus777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 3:41pm


     Style: g. barra (blue belt), fma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    mike swain has a book out called "clinch fighting for mma" that's nothing but no-gi judo throws. www.empirebooks.net
  10. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 5:53pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea_IR
    Hmmm, very interesting!
    You're right about the sacrifice stuff, but it can be fun to just pull off sometimes. I did figure out a way of doing it without the gi, but I'm not exactly going to use it.
    Just out of interest, what is "okuri-ashi-barai"? I'm meaning the "Okuri" in front of it, I haven't heard that term.
    hey, i forgot about this thread..

    "okuri" means "sliding." it's the same as in okuri-eri-jime, the sliding collar choke.

    as opposed to de-ashi-barai, the advancing foot sweep, okuri-ashi-barai is used when your opponent is moving to the side. the way it's trained is basically by sliding a couple steps to the right or left with your partner and then sweeping both of his feet out, hence the name.

    it also works if you draw them in a circle, like you can do from double unders.

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