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  1. ark44 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 1:47pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i could not find the article, i find it difficult to comprehend how changing my routine would influence strength gains.
      #21
  2. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 4:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ark44
    i could not find the article, i find it difficult to comprehend how changing my routine would influence strength gains.
    Your current routine is bad and there are better ones out there?

    And Kin, most folks have been calling me fat, so I suppose I should say thanks =P The angle and lighting is pretty bad in that vid.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
      #22
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 6:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jesus Fucking Christ titties!!! JC sent me a PM suggesting we make a thread or article about not being worried about bulking up... and now I know why.

    ark44, are you even training grappling or wrestling right now?????? If you are, then perfect, let's have a converstation.

    If not, let's stop this thread right here. And I say this because if you don't do grappling or wrestling at all, you have no reference about what things you should or should not worry about when it comes to grappling.

    Yes, it is possible to hold your own or even dominate larger guys. And it is also possible that someone much smaller than you can tie you into a knot at will. As Pointy said, it's called skill.

    Also, we need you to be consistent and put some thought behind your posts. One time you say you have no program. And the next you say you do. What the heck?

    I strongly suggest you do your due diligence and read the stickies. We have an entire collection of threads discussing these issues, including one listing the weight-training off-season plan used by the wrestling team at Oklahoma University.

    I'm going to lay it out for you in very simple terms. Ditch whatever you are doing right now and stick to the big three: bench presses (or overhead presses), squats and deadlifts.

    Those are the only things you really need if you are grappling/wrestling. In grappling/wrestling you are already doing pulling/pushing protocols, working individual muscles (biceps, triceps, hamstrings) in very sports-specific ways.

    The big three lifts are to supplement your strenght training. You don't want to gain muscle, modify your diet. Want to gain muscle, then modify your diet. Want to simply gain weight (there are reasons to do so), then, again, modify your diet.

    Be careful to be too lean, though. Some individuals do need that fat that you so deride to function. Being extremelly lean may look cool and hard-core, but it doesn't necessarily translate to stamina for combat sports.

    How big or small, lean or "padded" you are will depend on what you eat, how you train, what your goals are, and most important of all, your genetics.

    And next time you think it's impossible to be muscular and huge in grappling, search for Jeff Monson and Rhadi Ferguson and see their pictures.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
      #23
  4. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 6:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would throw in some pull-ups or rows along with the Big 3.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
      #24
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 6:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ark44
    i could not find the article
    It's not an article. It's a book. You can buy it in Amazon. Buy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ark44
    i find it difficult to comprehend how changing my routine would influence strength gains.
    short answer: you will comprehend the reasoning once you buy that book and read it.

    Long answer: Your routine has no purpose other than moving weights. There is no method or intelligence in it. You will never get lean muscle with that, much less strenght or power. You will not get stamina. Nothing.

    It doesn't even qualify as a bodybuilding routine. It's not even a routine. It's just a list of bodyparts per day. What exercises do you do, and how many sets and reps per set? JohnnyCache asked you that, and all you did was to mention bodyparts.

    For us to help us, you need to give us details. The devil is in the details.


    See, a bodybuilding routine is one centered about compound and isolation movements, usually in the 8-12 rep per set range. With the appropriate diet, this causes the greatests gains in muscle mass. There are strenght gains, but these are not the greatests you can get.

    Then, there is actual strenght/power training. You work almost entirely with compound movements and auxiliary movements, all of them centered around the big three (or variations thereof) : squats, deadlifts and bench presses.

    No silly bodyparts, working abs one day, arms another. It's all an scientific, methodic and sound full-body or near full-body training. And you work with loads that only allow you 4-5 reps at the most (aiming as heavy as 3 reps or one single rep.) Here, you are aiming at achieving maximal strenght and power.

    Both has benefits since strenght training makes your bones stronger and your tendons more resilient. Coupled that with good muscular balance, and this allows you to minimize injuries during grappling.

    Having said that, the later example of training is the one you want if you want to train for sports.

    Then, there is the training you will be doing during grappling. Here you will get your conditioning and the full-body skills and timing you need for grappling.

    You can do both and gain size, or stay the same if you wish. It's up to you and how you want to eat.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
      #25
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 6:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    I would throw in some pull-ups or rows along with the Big 3.
    That's true.

    To the OP, I cannot believe you could not find 'Starting Strenght' by Rippetoe. It's at the top of the results on google. If you expect us to do your homework, you are going in for a surprise. We won't help you if you don't do your due diligence.

    Here is your homework. We will expect you to do if you expect us to help you or give you advice.

    1. Go to Amazon and buy Starting Strenght, 2nd Edition.
    2. Buy Ross Enamait's Infinite Intensity. BTW, he just released a DVD, so you should be wise in buying it as well.
    3. Read the sticky : http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61712
    4. Then go to the Teh Weight Training, Grip Training, Powerlifting, Weightlifting And Stuff Thread : http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61598

      In there, you will check the following:

      1. How Important is Weightlifting for MMA fighting.
      2. Cutting out MA in favor of weights... to do MA?
      3. Being Muscular Makes you Gas?
      4. Stronger, Not Bigger.

    5. Then go to the Nutrition and Diet thread: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61083
    6. Read Westside Barbell For Skinny Bastards by DeFranco: http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...s_westside.htm
    7. Gobble up anything you find related to power training, anaerobic endurance, strengh training for powerlifting, olympic lifting and strongman competitions. Ditch anything related to bodybuilding.
    8. Subscribe to NorCal Performance Menu.
    9. Search on youtube for anything related to Westside Barbell, Rhadi Ferguson, Into Combat or the several training short clips in youtube or video.google by Bas Rutten or Randy Couture.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 12/26/2007 6:59pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
      #26
  7. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 6:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just to clarify, a bodybuilding routine isn't just about adding as much size. Really, any routine can do that. What really makes a bodybuilding routine unique is that the goal is scuplting the body. It's about special focus on how the body looks. Getting a full outerquad sweep, fully developed 3 heads on the deltoid, good calf to quad ratio, perfecting the delt-pec tie in, etc. You could be at a shredded 300lbs on stage, but if you have grossly disproportional arms and tiny calvs, you'd score really poor. Marcus Rhul is arguably one of the most massive bodybuiders out there, and he places relatively low in the olympia because of a lacking of symmetry and the "ideal" body.

    It's why bodybuilding routines don't really cut it for performance athletics. Your time in the gym is spent more on crafting how your body looks versus how it performs. However, what lays down the foundation of bodybuilding is very similar to any other power/strength based routine. It's solid, heavy, compound movements that give your body the necessary strength and thickness that not only gives you a foundation to refine (muscles to actually sculpt, rather than bone), but also the strength necessary to use sufficiently heavy weight on isolation work that will get better results than lighter weight. A 30lb concentration curl will get better results than a 15lb one.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
      #27
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 7:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nicely put!
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
      #28
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 7:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You guys do realise that ark is a troll following a long-established tradition for a certain troll/group of trolls of using a brief name which ends in a number and starting threads with stupid but plausible questions designed to lead to an argument, right ?
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

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    I <3 Sirc.
      #29
  10. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Certified Personal Trainer and Drinker of Coffee

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 7:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with Emevas and Teh El Macho.

    While your just listing your daily bodybuilding split and not your routine, it looks like you have your training scheduled the way a bodybuilder trains.

    Thats great if you want to look like a bodybuilder, but it probably isn't going to help you in your training. Bodybuilders train for the purpose of sculpting "ideal" bodies, not for performance. Your training should reflect your goals, in this case performance for grappling. Follow the above posted advice.

    is it possible to train in grappling and remain light and fast without being dominated by heavier guys.
    Yes, you have to have more skill then them but it's not unusual to see. Granted a person with a weight or strength advantage can make it harder for you, but if your grapplings better you should be able to work around that.

    ultimately i want to stay in prime physical condition, is this possible while being thrown around on the mats and training with larger fighters?
    um.... I don't understand the question. Please rephrase

    how important is lower body strength compared to upper body strength, and which is more important in grappling?
    Both are important You shouldn't neglect any body part, but the ones that are most important in grappling are your whole lower body (hips, quads, hams, calves), core, back, neck, Bi and forearms. It's not only strength your going to need but also muscular endurance and explosiveness.

    i would rather put 10 pounds of muscles onto my legs than 5 pounds of fat onto my gut just to compete, is it worth putting time, money and energy into expanding my fighting skills or is staying lean and clean with toned muscle mass impossible when involving yourself in wrestling or ground fighting?
    Again I don't understand. How much do you weigh? In most competitions there are weight classes so unless you are bellow the min weight requirement you should be able to compete with people your size without adding any weight.

    I think we need to get a bit more info on what your current weight is, what weight class you want to fight in, what your goals are, and what your currently doing. You may have to modify things if you want to take up grappling and are on a limited schedule (I can certainly relate), but that doesn't mean your going to become fat if you take up grappling
      #30
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