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  1. angry welshman is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 6:48am


     

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    Incorporating cardio into Rippetoe's SS

    I'm sure most people know it - 3 days a week, lots of squatting, 5 sets of 5 on all exercises except the deadlift which is 1 set of 5.

    This might be addressed in the book anyway (still waiting for my copy to arrive), but anyway - how best would one incorporate some high-intensity cardio training into the program (Tabata running for example)?
  2. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 11:28am

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    Quote Originally Posted by angry welshman
    This might be addressed in the book anyway (still waiting for my copy to arrive), but anyway - how best would one incorporate some high-intensity cardio training into the program (Tabata running for example)?
    The best way to incorporate HIIT into Starting Strength is: Don't.

    You're squatting three times a week and adding poundage every session. If you try to add HIIT into the mix, you're not going to recover and your CNS is gonna get burned out very quickly.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
  3. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 12:15pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    The best way to incorporate HIIT into Starting Strength is: Don't.

    You're squatting three times a week and adding poundage every session. If you try to add HIIT into the mix, you're not going to recover and your CNS is gonna get burned out very quickly.
    I agree with your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
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  4. angry welshman is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 3:19pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    The best way to incorporate HIIT into Starting Strength is: Don't.

    You're squatting three times a week and adding poundage every session. If you try to add HIIT into the mix, you're not going to recover and your CNS is gonna get burned out very quickly.
    Sounds decent, thanks for the advice. So what would you suggest in about 12 months' time, bearing in mind I'm hoping to start BJJ when I move from my current town?
  5. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 4:05pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    The best way to incorporate HIIT into Starting Strength is: Don't.

    You're squatting three times a week and adding poundage every session. If you try to add HIIT into the mix, you're not going to recover and your CNS is gonna get burned out very quickly.
    Would this be the case for Tabata protocols that targeted muscle groups you aren't hitting as hard during the weight sessions?
  6. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 4:45pm

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    You should be hitting every muscle group plenty hard during SS.
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  7. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 6:04pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by angry welshman
    Sounds decent, thanks for the advice. So what would you suggest in about 12 months' time, bearing in mind I'm hoping to start BJJ when I move from my current town?
    In about 12 months' time you should be long finished with Starting Strength, which is specifically for initial strength development and whose high volume is unsuitable for someone whose strength has progressed to a more intermediate athletic stage.
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  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/27/2007 4:56pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    In about 12 months' time you should be long finished with Starting Strength, which is specifically for initial strength development and whose high volume is unsuitable for someone whose strength has progressed to a more intermediate athletic stage.
    Bingo. And to add to the point, there is no way that someone grappling 2-3 times a week can sustain such volume of lifting. One of the two activities will be negatively affected, probably both.

    Someone that's doing grappling as his primary activity will have a hard time lifting seriously more than twice a week. By seriously I mean, say, one DE and one ME workout a week, or two strenght-gaining full-body workouts.

    There is a limit to what a body can take. We are not Wolverine. **** breaks.

    I could see some light-to-moderate cardio being incorporated on an off-day during SS. One could easily do a 15-minute session on an elyptical or jogging outdoors on one or two off-days. They may actually be desirable.

    However, the operative words here are moderate and light.

    But an intense cardiovascular activity, that will be undesirable. No way. HIIT, tabatas or anything like that, even less so. No way, not on a regular basis.
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  9. Jhemsley is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2007 6:25pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

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    ***** Warning, like many of my posts, this went long. Sorry to the OP and others, I just can't help myself.

    A couple of other questions for the OP.

    1) Are you doing any other activities now? You mention that you are planning on doing BJJ in about 12 months, but what are you doing currently?

    2) How old are you? If you are younger, you will bounce back faster. Older - slower. That will impact what you can do in addition to Starting Strength.

    As a general comment - I think after the first month of Starting Strength (or any other starting program) doing some cardio of some sort on a regular basis is in fact desirable - provided its kept within a relatively light to moderate range TEM suggested.

    Also, if you are training for another sport that uses cardio, its not realistic to abandon all cardio for the 3 - 9 month period that Starting Strength is desgined for. Arguably, you shouldn't do Starting Strength as a supplement since its designed to be a self contained program.

    While I agree with that in theory, in reality most trainers don't know enough about training to provide a better program to supplement whatever else you are doing than doing SS as perscribed with no changes or additions for two weeks, a light 30 minute walk (muscle soreness won't let you run) twice a week for two more weeks in addition to SS just to be used to hitting the pavement, then slowly reintroduce a limited cardio workout for your other sport over another month's time, while accepting you are going to impede strength gains a little bit while your body adjusts. From there, feel it out.

    This isn't technically correct advice - the Shut Up and Lift advice above is more in line with the SS text, but as mentioned above this might be an accpetable level of doing things IN A LIMITED CASE if you already have a favorite sport you can't imagine not doing for 3 - 9 months.

    Strength and cardio combined are such a vital component of almost any sport, that I have a hard time believing you will be worse off strength training with a great program with a little of the sport as well than abandoning somethign you love for a long duration or using an inferior strength program.

    If you're not sure how to make the above work, just do Starting Strength for a while and see where you are at. If the only thing you want to do is get stronger, just do Starting Strength. If you've never done or had a lengthy break from any kind of real physical activity, just do Starting Strength.

    If you just want to lose weight with resistance training + High Intensity Interval Training, go to www.alwyncosgrove.com and read his articles on doing some high intensity cardio after resistance training (he calls it Afterburn). Keep in mind it will impact strength gains (it won't nullify them, but it will reduce them). You can buy the program from him called Afterburn, which I haven't fully reviewed yet. Its a program built from the ground up to combine the two (SS is truly a stand alone program / supplemental technical). Neither approach is bad, but its different approaches. If Resistance Training + HIIT for weight loss is what you are after, use Starting Strength as a techincal manual for form, ditch the program and get Afterburn or New Rules of Lifting (also by Cosgrove), which is the progarm I currently use.

    Also, buy New Rules of Lifting by Shuler and Cosgrove if you want a little bit longer program than Starting Strength. It will carry you into (but probably not through) what is called the Intermediate Athelete phase by SS after you complete SS, or it can take you from Novice to Intermediate by itself (using SS terms). The excercise technical breakdowns in Starting Strength are much better (in fact, they are the best ever put in print), but the program in New Rules of Lifting is more flexible and IMO a little more robust for grappling than SS. Neither are wrong, but SS uses an excercise driven system, NROL is movement driven. At first, the gains between the two will probably be smaller than is possible to measure in a novice lifter.

    Don't use the two programs together at the same time except for the form advice in Starting Strength with the program in NROL. And don't use the form advice in NROL with the Starting Strength Program. NROL is not designed to be a comprehensive review of technique on the 5 big lifts that SS, don't use it as such. It gives enough to be relatively safe and effective, but not perfect. Why? No one buys 600 page introductory manuals. Total text SS and NROL are at the practical limit for marketability.

    The two texts complement each other rather well with a few minor issues. Most notably, the terms Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced lifter differ. SS uses them as a description of capacity to perform in the weight room. NROL uses them to describe experience and consistency in a weight room. Neither are wrong and both explictly define the terms - just don't get them confused if you use both.

    But, since you already bought Starting Strength - and the difference in value between the texts isn't great enough to matter for a beginner, just do Starting Strength unless you meet one of the two criteria I mentioned above (resistance training + HIIT for accelerated fat loss or strength training for a sport you currently do).
    Last edited by Jhemsley; 12/27/2007 6:32pm at .
  10. angry welshman is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2007 7:00pm


     

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    I'm 18. Just some weightlifting and running. Frequency varies from week to week.
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