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  1. Metallon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/12/2010 10:46am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai, Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by alnwicktkd View Post
    If the school you trained at sucks thats not a good basis for trying to teach good TKD there is a video somewhere in the KMA forum showing good tkd it is out there.As for songham being the best TKD availible in sweden I kind of doubt this there are dozens of TKD orgs both ITF and WTF orientated I find it hard to believe there isnt a single good dojang affiliated to either org in all of sweden.
    I didn't say that Songahm is the best TKD available in Sweden. I said that ITF and WTF aren't really my thing because of their sparring rules, policy on protective gear and contact level, and their forms/patterns. I also said that our club is the only Songahm club in Sweden. And I have had, since day one, the integrity to practice until I felt that I was ready and deserved the next rank. My beef with ATA isn't that it's making me into a sucky TKD player (although the lack of sparring does take its toll). I simply don't like that they let just about anyone become a black belt or instructor, and their instructor trainee programs make me cringe. A lot.

    What I proposed was simply that sometime in the future I might start try to develop a form of Taekwondo that would the equivalence of Kyokushin in the world of Karate. I may not be successful, but if anything I'll just learn even more about martial arts. ITF TKD may be a good place to start, but I already have a decent foundation within Taekwondo; more specifically, stances, traditional techniques and patterns. The missing pieces would be full-contact sparring and more focus on grappling (since we have that in Songahm). The other part would be to get rid of one-step spars and drills and exercises that don't work. Venturing into more effective martial arts will give me knowledge I wouldn't have gained by remaining within the realm of Taekwondo.


    I'm going to try to make some positive changes in my club before I leave because, frankly, I like the people there and would like them to get more efficient with their training. But after this year, I'm out. No doubt about it. and I don't need to find a TKD that suits me more because I can't imagine that any TKD school can compete with the local Kyokushin or Muay Thai clubs.


    Sorry for going off-topic. This is a premonition about why I'll be quitting TKD: Because its sparring is too light and too much "sports"-oriented.
  2. Kintanon is offline
    Kintanon's Avatar

    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    1/12/2010 10:51am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WTF is the problem you have with the ITF sparring/contact/equipment rules? They have continues sparring, minimal equipment, and full contact.
    As far as TKD rules go they are pretty much the best ruleset around. No hooking punches, no leg kicks, and no knees/elbows. All of that sucks. Otherwise face punching, body punching, head kicks, body kicks, are all allowed. The rounds are continuous and there are no restrictions on contact level or penalties for "excessive contact". And I'm not talking about just my particular random ITF tournament that I went to one time in the middle of no-where. I was in the fucking ITF World Cup. So I'm pretty sure that's how most ITF tournaments are.
  3. Metallon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/12/2010 11:31am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai, Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    WTF is the problem you have with the ITF sparring/contact/equipment rules? They have continues sparring, minimal equipment, and full contact.
    As far as TKD rules go they are pretty much the best ruleset around. No hooking punches, no leg kicks, and no knees/elbows. All of that sucks. Otherwise face punching, body punching, head kicks, body kicks, are all allowed. The rounds are continuous and there are no restrictions on contact level or penalties for "excessive contact". And I'm not talking about just my particular random ITF tournament that I went to one time in the middle of no-where. I was in the fucking ITF World Cup. So I'm pretty sure that's how most ITF tournaments are.
    Are you saying that ITF is to Taekwondo what Kyokushin is to Karate? If so, then there is no need for me to try to develop another Taekwondo style. But no hooking punches, no elbows, no knee strikes, no kicks to the leg doesn't sound like my cup of tea as I like kicks to the legs, knee strikes and elbows. And I like the more advanced, structured forms in ATA.

    Granted, the impression that local ITF schools hve given me is that ITF do not encourage "excessive" contact, they seem to be somewhere along the semi-contact line
  4. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    1/12/2010 11:34am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ATA doesn't even DO sparring in any meaningful way.
    I would like the ITF to allow low kicks and hooking punches as well, but they don't. It's still about the most permissive rule set you'll find in any large TKD organization.
    I quit TKD for that very reason. I simply don't have the momentum to force change in any of the large TKD organizations, and without that kind of change there's no point in my club using more permissive rules.
  5. Metallon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/12/2010 12:21pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai, Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    ATA doesn't even DO sparring in any meaningful way.
    I would like the ITF to allow low kicks and hooking punches as well, but they don't. It's still about the most permissive rule set you'll find in any large TKD organization.
    I quit TKD for that very reason. I simply don't have the momentum to force change in any of the large TKD organizations, and without that kind of change there's no point in my club using more permissive rules.
    I agree with you, for sparring ITF is by far the best choice. And I'm still waiting on what my head instructor has to say on the matter. As I mentioned before, I mailed him, and if things change in my club then I'll get some experience in being instructor in a martial art that... well, is actually a martial art. If not, I'll just do my thing anyway until people start complaining. Which they really shouldn't.
  6. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    1/12/2010 5:48pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Waitwaitwait...he wants to develop a new style of Taekwondo?
  7. Metallon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/12/2010 5:52pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai, Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
    Waitwaitwait...he wants to develop a new style of Taekwondo?
    No. Right now I don't want to, nor am I able to. If I want to in 10-15 years, I can start doing that then. If I'm able. It's a bit too far ahead in the future to decide, so it's more like idle speculation right now.

    EDIT: What I want to do now is to train a martial art that'll get me conditioned, increase my strength, speed and stamina, and with fun full-contact sparring.
    Last edited by Metallon; 1/12/2010 6:09pm at .
  8. tkd panda is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/12/2010 10:11pm


     Style: taekwon-do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unless you continue to train in TKD you will not be qualified to make any meaningfull changes and still call it TKD.

    Others have tried a more combative approach rayners lane springs to mind but they stayed within TKD to bring about the changes to how their dojang trains.
  9. Metallon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2010 5:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai, Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by alnwicktkd View Post
    Unless you continue to train in TKD you will not be qualified to make any meaningfull changes and still call it TKD.

    Others have tried a more combative approach rayners lane springs to mind but they stayed within TKD to bring about the changes to how their dojang trains.
    I can't honestly say I fully understand why you have to continue training a martial art in order to perform certain changes, especially when you already have realized that they, in their current form, are not to your liking. But I'll take your word for it and drop the plans. It's not like it'll hurt me to do so.

    I did check out Rainer Lane's TKD. It seems nice. But still quite different from what I had in mind.
  10. Whathappened is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2010 12:49am


     Style: Wing Chun Kuen

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallon View Post
    I can't honestly say I fully understand why you have to continue training a martial art in order to perform certain changes, especially when you already have realized that they, in their current form, are not to your liking. But I'll take your word for it and drop the plans. It's not like it'll hurt me to do so.

    I did check out Rainer Lane's TKD. It seems nice. But still quite different from what I had in mind.
    Politics pure and simple. Enough people and the right people need to believe in you in order to effect change. Being outside means you get written off as an outsider by those opposed to your ideas.
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