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  1. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 6:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cdog
    If you apply the same degree of scepticism and use the same tools of investigation that are regularly applied to the martial arts on this board, you will quickly come to the conclusion that chiropractic consists of 99% quack medicine and 1% half-assed massage.

    Want to know more? Start here: http://www.chirobase.org/index.html
    I agree with you in your base premises; having said that, most of what that website is about has already been discussed here. Furthermore, you haven't said a single thing about what that website is about. And for that, we have a problem.

    In the PT forums, it's not OK to say "look at this link", not unless a long discussion has already taken place with similar links already present and explained. Next time you put a link in the PT forums like that, without a decent summary of what the website is, I will delete it.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 6:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And since you were too f* lazy to do so, I will do it for you:

    Pple, instead of going to the main page first (which is laid out in a pretty chaotic format), read the mission statement first: http://www.chirobase.org/00AboutChirobase/mission.html

    which basically states the following:

    * To provide comprehensive information about chiropractic history, theories, and current practices.
    * To encourage and support the use of science-based practices by chiropractors.
    * To identify and oppose the use of unscientific practices by chiropractors.
    * To warn the public about inappropriate chiropractic care.
    * To help people seeking appropriate chiropractic care to locate it.
    * To pinpoint the risks involved in pursuing a chiropractic career.

    Then, read or glimpse this: (What a Rational Chiropractor Can Do for You - http://www.chirobase.org/07Strategy/goodchiro.html )

    Then, read "Tips on Choosing a Chiropractor" - http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...irochoose.html

    Then, read "What to Do if a chiropractor 'quacks' you" - http://www.chirobase.org/07Strategy/complain.html

    Then, go to the mess they have as the main page.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  3. Cdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 7:13pm


     Style: brazilian wax job ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My apologies El Macho,

    My bullshido posting skills are rather rusty. I should have offered more information about the link. Thank you for doing so for me (and I agree, the linked site is somewhat of a dog's breakfast).

    Greyfox,

    Yes I have read the site and many others like it. And no, I am not grouchy after seeing a chiro, good bad or indifferent. I was simply offering my opinion on the matter and more or less restating one of the points you made
    In short; ask around and research.
    I then added a link to a site, albeit without the required preamble, with the hope that the original poster would find some useful information to aid in his research.
  4. Greyfox is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 8:43pm


     Style: Wing Chun; Modern Wushu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My apologies for the tone of my post, Cdog. I read hostility and ignorance into your post, neither of which I am especially fond. So I replied with hostility and ignorance. So much for hypocriticism.

    Returning to the topic, this page (on the same site) outlines some of the ridiculous notions circulating in chiropractic - http://www.chirobase.org/01General/chirosham.html


    ::edit::

    Before I get into a habit of posting links with decent explanations, here's a break-down of the article. It was written by a Doctor of Chiropractic (DC) shortly after the antitrust suit against the American Medical Association (see here for more info), and discusses a number of dangerous practices that can occur in the name of chiropractic - mostly originating from "subluxation theory" (be aware that 'subluxation' is a valid injury - it's a technical term for a partial dislocation, often graded by severity of the injury. A full dislocation is a 'luxation').

    Then there's the theory of "applied kinesiology," which holds, among other things, that weakness of certain muscles (such as the latissimus dorsi) can signal the need for nutritional support of an organ like the pancreas. Practitioners who employ this idea sometimes place vitamin or mineral tablets on the patient's tongue, hand, or abdomen during testing. If the allegedly weak muscle gets stronger, it supposedly indicates the need for that particular dietary supplement.
    Again, do not confuse with the scientific usage, where 'kinesiology' is the study of the movement of the human body.

    I did notice that the Activator Method is mentioned - this instrument, I can personally vouch for. The problem is generally if it is in the hands of someone who does not understand proper clinical diagnosis and the contraindications for its use (that is, when it shouldn't be used).
    Last edited by Greyfox; 12/24/2007 9:06pm at .
  5. Nihonto is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/25/2007 10:11pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    And since you were too f* lazy to do so, I will do it for you:

    Pple, instead of going to the main page first (which is laid out in a pretty chaotic format), read the mission statement first: http://www.chirobase.org/00AboutChirobase/mission.html

    which basically states the following:




    Then, read or glimpse this: (What a Rational Chiropractor Can Do for You - http://www.chirobase.org/07Strategy/goodchiro.html )

    Then, read "Tips on Choosing a Chiropractor" - http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...irochoose.html

    Then, read "What to Do if a chiropractor 'quacks' you" - http://www.chirobase.org/07Strategy/complain.html

    Then, go to the mess they have as the main page.
    Thanks for the links - good stuff. It is funny how the "Tips on Choosing a Chiropractor" is so parallel to the Bullshido "Tips on Choosing a Dojo" I read somewhere.
  6. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 6:36am


     Style: gah, transition again

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Muscle Toe
    My vote is for a physiotherapist, based on my personal experience. The main difference with respect to the "back cracking" is that a PT mobilizes a joint, while a Chiro manipulates a joint. The PT approach is somewhat gentler.

    The same thing goes for PT's... you have to find a good one. The good thing for PT's is that a bad PT will probably not make the problem worse.
    I spent months seeing a PT after I had an injury on my thigh and could barely walk. She did almost dick, I suspect I simply recovered. What did she do? Some massage (that was only painful because I had an injury, not because it was hard and deep, like good massage is) and passed an electric current through my leg. Nothing more.

    [/quote]The advice I received (from PT's) was that if you want to go to a Chiro, their treatment is best suited to an acute injury, especially if you are already generally fit. For chronic problems, or for sick, or elderly, a PT or RMT might be a better choice.[/quote]

    This, sorta. I and my family treat a Chiro like we do any specialised medical practitioner- I go to a Chrio when I have spinal problems, which I had and might have a lot of. He prescribed strengthening exercises and was the man who got me on to weightlifitng, in effect. As I said, I'd trust my Chiro, but that's because mine is a genius. I don't trust most physios I've been to. Maybe we're just unlucky/lucky.

    Here's an example of my chiro vs a physio: Dad gets elbow tendon injury from weightlifting. Fairly bad one. Physio for about 2 months, does about dick all. One session of Chiro (he busted out a rubber studded ball and made an attempt to break up the scar tissue) and Dad's arm had improved more than the Physio had done.

    Also, (I just remembered) my Chiro was the one who identified my back problems, reffered me to get orthotics, and sent me to a local physical trainer and natural bodybuilder, who got me a weightlifting routine.
    Last edited by socratic; 12/26/2007 6:40am at .
  7. Greyfox is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 8:31am


     Style: Wing Chun; Modern Wushu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by socratic
    I spent months seeing a PT after I had an injury on my thigh and could barely walk. She did almost dick, I suspect I simply recovered. What did she do? Some massage (that was only painful because I had an injury, not because it was hard and deep, like good massage is) and passed an electric current through my leg. Nothing more.
    She did deep tissue massage directly to an injured area? I'm not too up on contraindications to massage, but I wouldn't recommend that.

    The advice I received (from PT's) was that if you want to go to a Chiro, their treatment is best suited to an acute injury, especially if you are already generally fit. For chronic problems, or for sick, or elderly, a PT or RMT might be a better choice.
    This, sorta. I and my family treat a Chiro like we do any specialised medical practitioner- I go to a Chrio when I have spinal problems, which I had and might have a lot of. He prescribed strengthening exercises and was the man who got me on to weightlifitng, in effect. As I said, I'd trust my Chiro, but that's because mine is a genius. I don't trust most physios I've been to. Maybe we're just unlucky/lucky.

    Here's an example of my chiro vs a physio: Dad gets elbow tendon injury from weightlifting. Fairly bad one. Physio for about 2 months, does about dick all. One session of Chiro (he busted out a rubber studded ball and made an attempt to break up the scar tissue) and Dad's arm had improved more than the Physio had done.

    Also, (I just remembered) my Chiro was the one who identified my back problems, reffered me to get orthotics, and sent me to a local physical trainer and natural bodybuilder, who got me a weightlifting routine.
    Well, I would also recommend a chiropractor for chronic problems. But yes, a good chiropractor will recommend you to strength training for rehabilitation and prevention. Remember; most injuries in training are preventable with good technique and proper conditioning. A good physical therapist of any sort will recognise that.
  8. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 11:33am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I first went when my left hip got thrown out playing soccer and ended up causing pain in my neck as well. Went for two adjustments and was fine for years.

    I recently had to go for a neck injury and went to a different chiropractor. The one I went to is a former wrestler who has a much different mentality then the first. This one, much like JDINCA's uses heat, ultrasound, IFR, massage and has never done an "adjustment". He doesn't pressure me to come in from 'back cracks' or 'neck cranks'. He also checks height, weight, bloodpressure, physical activity and talks diet to make sure you aren't putting undue artificial stress on your body.

    I'm ultra-skittish with chiropractors after reading about the increased potential for strokes during adjustments, but this is a solid cat. I really may be prejudiced, but my opinion is his background wrestling (and therefore needing to use a chiropractor himself) gives him a much more solid understanding of my needs.
  9. meataxe is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 12:36pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by socratic
    I spent months seeing a PT after I had an injury on my thigh and could barely walk. She did almost dick, I suspect I simply recovered. What did she do? Some massage (that was only painful because I had an injury, not because it was hard and deep, like good massage is) and passed an electric current through my leg. Nothing more.
    I've had that sort of experience when they used be covered by provincial medical insurance. Some shops just want to churn through as many patients as possible. Just like a chiro, you have to shop around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sandy Claws
    I recently had to go for a neck injury and went to a different chiropractor. The one I went to is a former wrestler who has a much different mentality then the first. This one, much like JDINCA's uses heat, ultrasound, IFR, massage and has never done an "adjustment". He doesn't pressure me to come in from 'back cracks' or 'neck cranks'. He also checks height, weight, bloodpressure, physical activity and talks diet to make sure you aren't putting undue artificial stress on your body.

    I'm ultra-skittish with chiropractors after reading about the increased potential for strokes during adjustments, but this is a solid cat. I really may be prejudiced, but my opinion is his background wrestling (and therefore needing to use a chiropractor himself) gives him a much more solid understanding of my needs.
    I had heard that due to the risks, neck manipulations were not recommended by some chiropractic organizations.
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
    - Voltaire
  10. Jim Londos is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/26/2007 2:52pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My Chiropractor teaches Dim Mac and is a ninja. Three for the price of one,
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