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  1. Necroyunus is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Shanghai
    Posts
    908

    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 3:54am


     Style: BJJ and MT at the moment

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    What "ki" (chi) power really is...

    I've read lots of books concerning ki power.Cuz I saw lots of examples showing "the strength of ki" and I didn't want to say it BS and get on my way.

    There were "lots" of videos about ki.Not "all" of this could be lies.

    But it was also very bullshitable to have a human being an energy that he could make it flow or make it affect someone else etc.


    Yes it is true that in some situations you became alot more powerful than normal.
    For example your son could be in a burning house.You could break the door that you can't break otherwise.

    Or the "unbendable arm" thing or tricks like that.They are not lies too.(I have tested it lots of time and teached it to lots of people)

    But I can assure you there is nothing like a "flowing ki energy" in these.

    The latest translations or .... dunno maybe because of films that makes people to be supernatural made all these to understood as a supernatural ray that can flow or damage or etc.


    The real meaning of ki is : "the carrot to make donkey run."

    Let me show you an example:





    The famous trick of "ki user"s.

    But it's true that when you do that it's not possible to bend his arm.What I mean is it works.

    Aikidoka's explain it like this :

    "Now concantrate like the ki comes from your hara and flows from your finger strong like a firehose.And with ki your arm will be unbendable"

    Yes it will be unbendable but let me tell you why:





    Most of you may know it actually but I will explain it once more.

    There are two main muscles above the elbow.One of them is biceps brachii the other one is triceps brachii.
    These muscles are in similar places but works differently than others.Just examine your arm.
    Bend your arm first.Your biceps will be harder (it means its working) but triceps will be soft.
    Now release your arm to the last point.Your biceps will be soft and triceps will be harder.
    So as you can see when one works the other one rests.

    Now lets see when you want to make an unbendable arm.

    First you will do this normally.You will tighten your arm with full strength and try to not bend your arm while your friend tries to bend your arm.If he is not weaker than you he will be succesful.But I suggest you to try with a strong person.
    Now your arm bended.Does that mean that you lack ki strength? BS...
    All the thing happening is this.When you use strength you work all of your muscles.The muscle which will prevent your arm to bend is triceps.But because of making all of your muscles work your biceps get harder too and it helps the bender.So when you resist you just help your friend not prevent it.


    Now... you will try this once more.But not with "ki flowing etc etc" you will just think that your biceps don't work the only usable muscle is triceps.And you will be succesful believe me I even teached this to a girl this is possible.




    So as you can see from the example.Ki energy isn't something can flow or go kill someone or gives you supernatural strength.

    The only thing is human body has lots of muscles in it and when you tighten yourself you just make yourself weaker sometimes.But don't know it.
    All these ki things are coordination of muscles nothing more.
    That is why you become more powerful in the times of danger too.Your brain makes your muscles work exactly as they must.Not as you want.

    Actually I can even tell you a training that would be helpful.

    You want to punch for example.Do it very slowly and with high concentration.And try to understand which muscles work and which not.
    After completely understanding this try to punch again more relaxed and concantrating on those muscles.
    This may not work on the rings cuz you will be fighting not concantrating or meditating.
    But if you want some action like breaking bricks or etc this info could be useful :)



    Oh and why did I tell all this?
    I know none of you care about this energy thing or something but when an aikidoka starts to talk to you trying to make you accept these things I want you to have some technical info to make him shut up.



    With all respect....
    Last edited by Necroyunus; 12/20/2007 4:03am at .
  2. Airman Kai is offline
    Airman Kai's Avatar

    AK: Giving new meaning to the word "Unfair."

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Scott AFB, IL
    Posts
    1,536

    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 4:00am


     Style: Out-Of-Shape MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've read lots of books concerning ki power.Cuz I saw lots of examples showing "the strength of ki" and I didn't want to say it BS and get on my way.

    There were "lots" of videos about ki.Not "all" of this could be lies.

    But it was also very bullshitable to have a human being an energy that he could make it flow or make it affect someone else etc.


    Yes it is true that in some situations you became alot more powerful than normal.
    For example your son could be in a burning house.You could break the door that you can't break otherwise.

    Or the "unbendable arm" thing or tricks like that.They are not lies too.(I have tested it lots of time and teached it to lots of people)

    But I can assure you there is nothing like a "flowing ki energy" in these.

    The latest translations or .... dunno maybe because of films that makes people to be supernatural made all these to understood as a supernatural ray that can flow or damage or etc.


    The real meaning of ki is : "the carrot to make donkey run."

    Let me show you an example:





    The famous trick of "ki user"s.

    But it's true that when you do that it's not possible to bend his arm.What I mean is it works.

    Aikidoka's explain it like this :

    "Now concantrate like the ki comes from your hara and flows from your finger strong like a firehose.And with ki your arm will be unbendable"

    Yes it will be unbendable but let me tell you why:



    Most of you may know it actually but I will explain it once more.

    There are two main muscles above the elbow.One of them is biceps brachii the other one is triceps brachii.
    These muscles are in similar places but works differently than others.Just examine your arm.
    Bend your arm first.Your biceps will be harder (it means its working) but triceps will be soft.
    Now release your arm to the last point.Your biceps will be soft and triceps will be harder.
    So as you can see when one works the other one rests.

    Now lets see when you want to make an unbendable arm.

    First you will do this normally.You will tighten your arm with full strength and try to not bend your arm while your friend tries to bend your arm.If he is not weaker than you he will be succesful.But I suggest you to try with a strong person.
    Now your arm bended.Does that mean that you lack ki strength? BS...
    All the thing happening is this.When you use strength you work all of your muscles.The muscle which will prevent your arm to bend is triceps.But because of making all of your muscles work your biceps get harder too and it helps the bender.So when you resist you just help your friend not prevent it.


    Now... you will try this once more.But not with "ki flowing etc etc" you will just think that your biceps don't work the only usable muscle is triceps.And you will be succesful believe me I even teached this to a girl this is possible.




    So as you can see from the example.Ki energy isn't something can flow or go kill someone or gives you supernatural strength.

    The only thing is human body has lots of muscles in it and when you tighten yourself you just make yourself weaker sometimes.But don't know it.
    All these ki things are coordination of muscles nothing more.
    That is why you become more powerful in the times of danger too.Your brain makes your muscles work exactly as they must.Not as you want.

    Actually I can even tell you a training that would be helpful.

    You want to punch for example.Do it very slowly and with high concentration.And try to understand which muscles work and which not.
    After completely understanding this try to punch again more relaxed and concantrating on those muscles.
    This may not work on the rings cuz you will be fighting not concantrating or meditating.
    But if you want some action like breaking bricks or etc this info could be useful :)



    Oh and why did I tell all this?
    I know none of you care about this energy thing or something but when an aikidoka starts to talk to you trying to make you accept these things I want you to have some technical info to make him shut up.



    With all respect....

    Even though it deserves a big fat TL:DR, I did read it, if for no other reason to tell you that that was not only boring, but added nothing to this forum. This discussion has been had MANY times, and from every concievable angle (including the one you're posting).

    Search Function :evil5:



  3. Necroyunus is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2007
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    Shanghai
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    908

    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 4:05am


     Style: BJJ and MT at the moment

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh...I really searched it but couldn't find it.

    Sorry man admins can delete the post than.

    I apologize again...
  4. Coach Josh is offline
    Coach Josh's Avatar

    Silent Guardian

    Join Date
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    Lafayette, LA
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    2,183

    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 7:48am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kinesiology is the scientific study of the anatomy, physiology, and mechanics of body movement, especially in humans. [1] The word kinesiology is derived the Greek "kinesis" (motion) + the suffix -ology or -logy from the greek "logos" or "logia"(meaning a field of study).


    Remove the nesiology and there you go because science isn't important when talking about **** people believe in.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  5. okashiibudo is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13

    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 7:49am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tomiki Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow. I'm new here, so I'll put this in the form of a question: why is there so much rudeness on this forum? So what if it's been discussed before? Is it that serious a problem that you can't live with a topic like KI being brought up again?

    OK, now for the civilized:

    In my style of aikido, we teach unbendable arm. And we do NOT teach it as a "ki trick". We teach it as a simple muscular function of the arm. Guys who do BJJ can tell you that there are times when you're stonger by being relaxed than you would be by tensing up. Same principle.

    But ki it ain't. When we refer to ki, at least in my school, we're referring to movement, energy, or the additional momentum that uke (the one recieving the technique) introduces into the system.

    Unbendable arm, then, is the position of the human arm when pushing a car: not straight, but bent slightly at the elbow, and relaxed. This position allows the person to push my moving forward at the hara (or at the belt), rather than by using upper body strength.
  6. cyril is offline
    cyril's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Tallahassee, FL
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    831

    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 8:15am


     Style: No-Gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I actually found this a very good article. It explains exactly the way it needs to (maybe your gammar needs a bit of work, though), and uses a very common example. I think that this article is BETTER than most of our Ki/Chi/Chakara discussions since, if you've ever been to an Aikido ki user's class, this is a very common example. This article CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY debunks this, and I find it very awesome.

    I say props. Even if "every possible angle" has been studied, it's still nice to have detailed reports, which this does quite nicely.

    Take what I say with a grain of salt.
  7. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    3,378

    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 9:14am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with cyril, I have done quite a bit of my own "ki" digging when writting my Dillman article, albeit, the focus was slightly different, but I found the OP's article pretty informative.

    Good write and read. Here's the Dillman article which provides a focus on the BS of light-touch and no-tough chi knockouts.

    http://www.bullshido.com/articles/di...article-6.html
  8. sempaiman is offline

    Senior Member

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    West coast
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 9:23am


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by okashiibudo
    Wow. I'm new here, so I'll put this in the form of a question: why is there so much rudeness on this forum? So what if it's been discussed before? Is it that serious a problem that you can't live with a topic like KI being brought up again?
    Yeah, there are few dick heads here, but majority are cool. Just need to have tougher skin.
  9. heyguy is offline
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    Registered Member

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    Rhody
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 10:08am


     Style: various cma's

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lol I'd say most are dicks and few are cool. It is an open forum on the internet, so don't expect much. Funny when they ask you to search a three letter word which you can't search.
  10. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,772

    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 10:28am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Regarding the relocation and new title for this thread, it's worth pointing out that the OPer (Necroyunus) lists karate, not aikido, in his style field and that the comment about Bullshido being "rude" was made by another poster, okashiibudo, who does list aikido in his style field.
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