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  1. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 3:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Starting Strength is supposedly stocked at my two local bookmarts, but I've never seen it. Order online. And make sure to get the new version.

    <----

    If you're looking to pull the micro and macro together, check out his other book, "Practical Programming for Strength Training". Or even just the first chapter online for free. (pdf link)


    Read here:
    http://www.startingstrength.com/

    And here:
    http://www.practicalprogrammingforstrengthtraining.com/
    Last edited by PirateJon; 12/18/2007 3:35pm at .
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  2. ironlurker is offline
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    How do Chameleon Circuit?

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 3:34pm


     Style: jkd

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Angry-Monkey
    yeah I know what you mean. I spend all my time working on a molecular level, atomic interactions within proteins and structure/function relationships but somehow when I think about physiology it all goes out the window.
    Make some designer roids.
    :icon_scra :book1: :user: :XXarcade: :wbaba2:5wow:
    They killed JFK in '63, so what the **** you think they'll do to me?
  3. Raining_Blood is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 6:22pm


     Style: Wrestling, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    SunTzu you are correct that conjugate perdiozation doesnt just apply to advanced powerlifters but this is the purpose it was orginally designed for. The system was designed to help get around the fact that advanced lifters make strength gains much slower than beginners. Beginners dont need the level of complexity to make gains, this isnt to say however that using a conjugate system a bigger wont make gains. Joe Defranco himself often doesnt use WS4SB with beginners but uses a bodyweight programme or a simplier programme. You do however raise a good point that the OP has a athletic background.
  4. ignignokt is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 7:53pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    For the OP, leg workout are the key to gain muscle (weight + size) and strenght. Squats and deadlifts (in particular deadlifts) and barbel lunges every now and then, that was the key for me to move from 145-150lbs to 165lbs (and climbing.)
    Out of curiosity, what are you shooting for? I assumed that people usually do weight training for mass gain in order to get near the limits of their weight class for competition purposes. Mostly, when I hear about weight gain or loss, it's in the context of some sort of competition goal.

    Do you guys keep building mass simply for the extra strength for general, open weight fighting? I can see the value of building strength for its own sake, but I was wondering if there's some other competition-related motivation.
  5. Bang! is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 9:38pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Angry-Monkey
    Thanks everyone, I'll put those two books on my list. Maybe I'll try and pick them up locally on boxing day, are they in wide circulation?




    Is there going to be a toronto get together anytime soon? Have you been attending those recently?

    yeah I know what you mean. I spend all my time working on a molecular level, atomic interactions within proteins and structure/function relationships but somehow when I think about physiology it all goes out the window. In my mind the complexity at the molecular level disappears when you get to macro-scale and I have the mentality that if I lift I will get stronger (no matter what kind of schedule/program I use) and that if I'm not sore the next day then nothing is happening.
    If you knew the micro and macro of everything, your head would explode.

    I haven't been to a get-together/whatever whatever in a while (actually, that was the last time we rolled previous to the tournament), but will definitely try to make the next one.

    By the way, as much as I like the WS4SB program, it's not for someone trying to minimize size gains like yourself.
    Last edited by Bang!; 12/18/2007 11:20pm at .
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2007 10:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ignignokt
    Out of curiosity, what are you shooting for? I assumed that people usually do weight training for mass gain in order to get near the limits of their weight class for competition purposes. Mostly, when I hear about weight gain or loss, it's in the context of some sort of competition goal.

    Do you guys keep building mass simply for the extra strength for general, open weight fighting? I can see the value of building strength for its own sake, but I was wondering if there's some other competition-related motivation.
    For extra strenght.

    At least for me, I want to see how much heavier I can get w/o affecting my (already anemic) gas tank. Obviously, with it, I'm aiming to be as strong as I can get, pound by pound. I want to reach my 70's and still have a strong frame ;P

    Since my grappling training has been sporadic and virtually zero for the last 8 months, I used to my advantage. I hope I can keep the weight once (and if) I get back to the mat. There are many benefits to it, stronger joints, etc. Purely annectodal, I almost broke my neck at the beginning of the year during grappling.

    I believe, and my instructor back then believed as well, that it was my thick neck that saved me. I've been going to a chiro for months to deal with it, but really, it was nasty. The disavantage is that you may gas faster, but the advantage is that things can break less often. Stronger skeletal muscle == stronger joints and bones.

    I was at 145-150 for a long time, and, at least for me, it did suck. There is a limit to how strong you can get depending on your size. Plus I was feeling lethargic all the time. As soon as I started gaining weight and eating right, that **** went away. I don't suffer from chronic back and hip pain anymore either. Also, the increase in weight went alongside my ability to break through different plateaus that plagued for years.

    I don't think I'll be competing anytime soon, much less cut weight. If I can walk at 165-170, I'd be a happy camper.

    The other guys who do compete in MMA, like LI GUY and GIJoe, they may come from a different angle since they have to consider weight cutting and stuff like that.

    -- EDIT --

    The bad thing is that I went up from waist size 30 to 32. Not one of my suit pants, khakis and dockers fit me. I have like 10 jeans that don't fit me. I have one suit I bought more than a year ago, completely unused, and the pants don't fit me. Most of my favorite long-sleeve shirts don't fit me either.

    And it's not gut. It's my back, hips, glutes and tights. People may say 'what the problem with that', but ****!!! I have to buy new clothes, and I have an obscene amount of money invested on barely used clothes I can't wear.

    So, for people who are looking to make big gains in size, be ready to for some moolah in new clothes. It's not even funny. :angry2:
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 12/18/2007 10:13pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 8:16am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    I'd like to add that for anyone that's just starting lifting to give priority to leg work/posterior chain over anything else if you are short of time. That is, if you are pressed with time and you must choose a few exercises to do, choose compound leg exercises.

    Of course, this is a simplification, but people tend to forget how important leg work is for developing strenght on the entire body.

    For the OP, leg workout are the key to gain muscle (weight + size) and strenght. Squats and deadlifts (in particular deadlifts) and barbel lunges every now and then, that was the key for me to move from 145-150lbs to 165lbs (and climbing.)
    Agreed, I spent my childhood and youth playing soccer (TEH Football to us Brits) and developed huge thighs, calves etc but no upper body development. This is normal, anyway, after getting out of condition in my 20s, I suddenly developed but was also FAT until I eventually started Circuit Training.

    One day, the circuit instructor failed to appear and we were let loose in the Machine Room (which was new) and I saw a chap enter without a Tee-Shirt obviously intent on showing off his manly physique. Apart from the awful lapse of gym protocol, there were few birds (that's "gals" to you Citizens of the USA) for him to impress but he went onto the Pull Up station and lifted (in sets) his whole weight without assistance and then compounded by Elbow Dipping, again without assistance. Crikey, I thought, I can't do that. Just then he walked past me and I saw his tobacco pipe cleaner legs. Good God, but they were skinny, so clearly he'd trained only his torso without any overall notion of development. I suppose it does explain weightlifter pants/trousers.

    Obviously he had no awareness that lifting often starts at the legs.

    BTW, I have been verbally told that someone with a similar imbalance sought to rush their leg development and died from a Heart Attack. Somehow, I'm not too surprised.

    As Teh El Mariachi says, remember to factor in leg training.

    Merry Crimbo.
  8. ignignokt is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2007 8:21pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    There are many benefits to it, stronger joints, etc. Purely annectodal, I almost broke my neck at the beginning of the year during grappling.

    I believe, and my instructor back then believed as well, that it was my thick neck that saved me. I've been going to a chiro for months to deal with it, but really, it was nasty. The disavantage is that you may gas faster, but the advantage is that things can break less often. Stronger skeletal muscle == stronger joints and bones.
    I believe it. I was thrown on my shoulder and neck earlier this year (tournament, didn't see it coming so I didn't slap the mat), and while there was no real damage, it scared the hell out of me and inspired me to take the neck strengthening calisthenics seriously instead of just miming my way through them. It's very vulnerable.
  9. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 2:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You've rec'd a lot of good advice. I don't think there's too much I could add. If nobody mentioned pyramid sets, try them. When first starting serious lifting I did pyramid sets on all my big lifts. I did a 10 rep warm-up, followed by 8, 4 and 1 reps at 80, 90 and 100% of your 1rm. Of course, your 1rm is not your true 1rm because you're a bit tired at that point, but you know what I mean. I then followed that with a couple burn out sets at 10 reps again. I went from a 1rm bench of about 150 to a 1rm of 230 with that scheme.

    Also, not sure if anybody said this either, but you don't have to worry about packing on mass (regardless of the lifting scheme) unless you are taking in more calories than you expend.
  10. Angry-Monkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2008 11:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hey guys, thanks again for your help. about two months after my initial post my strength training sort of tapered off again. between my technique training (mma, kickboxing, bjj), running my recreational club here at university and grad school I just didn't have the time or energy for it. Once classes ended for the undergrads and my club here closed for the summer I was able to pick the weight training up again.

    It took me a few weeks to get back to where I left off but I'm making some steady gains now. I picked up the "New Rules" book, it was a great read for me and very informative and I plan on integrating a lot of the principles into my routine.

    As suggested I've been focusing mainly on compound leg exercises with some shoulder presses, bench presses, bent-over rows and pullups thrown in.

    I had shed some weight a couple months ago for my first mma fight and its starting to climb back up to where it used to be. Not sure if that's the weight training or the time I've been taking off from my kickboxing and jiujitsu these past two weeks because of school.

    Anyway, just thought I'd update you guys since you gave me a ton of good advice.
    Last edited by Angry-Monkey; 6/04/2008 9:35am at .
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