Thread: new to weight training - 3x10?
12/17/2007 10:22pm, #1
new to weight training - 3x10?
I've been off and on with weight training for the past year but have finally dedicated myself to getting in at least 3 times a week for weights.
I've always felt weak for my weight in grappling competition (155lbs), my goal is to increased my overall strength and muscle endurance without putting on too much weight. I walk around at ~160-162 but have some fat to lose (probably no more than 10 lbs).
I've been doing a lot of squats, deadlifts, overhead squats, pullups, dips, in sets of 3x10 for simplicity's sake. I was reading a thread just now about 3x10 being more for mass gaining and 4-5 reps for strength. Does this apply to me as well being new to weight training? If so, how can I convert what I lift now at 3x10 to 5-rep sets, and how many sets of those?
I've been increasing my weights slowly as I'm still learning proper form and so don't want to push too hard, but I'm rarely sore more than a day after training if even... I think I can do more. Right now I'm squatting 175, deadlifting 165 and overhead squatting 95lbs. I plan on adding some bench press but I'm a bit wary as I don't have someone working with me regularly to spot.
12/17/2007 10:45pm, #2Originally Posted by Angry-Monkey
I found this particularly useful:
The program calls for doing ten sets of ten on compound exercises such as the bench press and barbell squat. You start off with 60% off your one rep max and do not increase the weight until you can complete ten sets of ten on any given exercise. This program is brutal. However, many trainees added 10-15 pounds in as little as six week by persevering with GVT.
Unfortunately, many people that tried GVT also received little or no benefit. Why is this? Well, not everyone has the same muscle fibers. Some people are dominated by fast twitch muscles and thus respond better to low reps and heavy weights. Alternatively, other people are dominated by slow twitch muscles and respond better to higher rep sets with moderate weights.
People that are dominated by fast twitch muscles probably did not respond to well to GVT. While those with a majority of slow twitch muscles probably did. At this point you are probably wondering what category you fall into. One way to find out is to have a muscle biopsy done. However, this is painful and intrusive and not a practical option for most.
A more practical alternative is to do what my friend and top strength Christian Thibaudeau, author of "The Black Book Of Training Secrets" calls the "80% reps test." Here is how it works. Take 80% of your one rep max on an exercise and perform as many reps as possible with good form.
According to Coach Thibaudeau, if you can only perform three reps, then you are extremely fast twitch dominant and need to focus on low-reps. If you can perform 5-10, then you are fast twitch dominant and need to stay in that rep range.
If you can perform 14-21 you are slow twitch dominant and will be better served with higher rep sets. This is very useful information for designing a high volume or any training program for that matter that will work well for you.
And determine how many reps you can do at 80% of your one rep max. So if you can do 5-10 at 80%, you'd start of with 10x3 at 80% of one rep max and work up to 10X5 before increasing the weight. If you can do >10, you'd do the 10x10's at 60% of one rep max or do 10x5 at 80% and cycle up to 10x10.
edit- and I find the cycling helps keep me honest about the form
Last edited by ironlurker; 12/17/2007 10:47pm at .They killed JFK in '63, so what the **** you think they'll do to me?
12/17/2007 10:56pm, #3
If you're new to strength training, then you're likely to need more overall volume (sets x reps) to trigger gains. 3x10s or 3x8s are fine during this time, especially since it's important to prep connective tissue and tendon strength for heavier lifts.
If you're feeling ready to move on, then keeping your rep scheme between 3 and 5 is probably advisable. This type of training focuses on nervous system development (by maximizing motor unit recruitment) and minimizes size gains. I don't think you should jump down that quickly, though. Instead, make the progression gradually, over the next five or six weeks. Form is more important than anything right now.
You can roughly estimate that what you lift for 10 reps to be about 75% of your 1 rep max. That works out to be about 85% for five.
Please note that all of the above is wrong and that you should not follow it at all. If I'm going to have to run into you in competition again, I would also recommend not practicing jiu jitsu for at least six months prior.
12/17/2007 11:30pm, #4Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey"Emevas,
You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
12/17/2007 11:53pm, #5
Haha, hey man. I had fun in that match, looking forward to fighting again. It was particularly humorous because I had just finished telling kieron about my anaconda defense that had been foolproof in training. Turns out it only works against the guys here at Mac that don't know how to finish the choke properly.
Are you going to be doing most of the tournaments this year?
Thanks for the tips, both of you. You would think that being a scientist I'd have done all my background reading before asking any questions but I'm still relatively clueless when it comes to training smart. A little at a time I guess.
12/17/2007 11:57pm, #6Originally Posted by Angry-Monkey"Emevas,
You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
12/18/2007 12:16am, #7
That's why us exercise physiology peeps are pimps.Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
12/18/2007 1:25am, #8
definitely start low and work your way up, otherwise prepare to be a statistic.
12/18/2007 3:00am, #9
Personally when reading on new subjects I look for people who are able to explain advanced principles in terms that require only a basic understanding of a given subject to understand. I've always found teaching a subject well requires more thorough understanding.
12/18/2007 4:22am, #10
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Wrestling, MT
The WS4SB programme is a very good programme and I use it as the basis for my own programme but it is not necessarily the best programme for a beginner. It is built on the old eastern bloc method known as conjugate perdiozation and is designed for advanced powerlifters. However saying this, Joe Defranco, the orginator of the programme has had huge success using this programme for beginners. When looking at the results Defranco has achieved it should be noted that most of the clients he has are relatively accomplished athletes, so while they are beginners to weight training they are still more advanced than a complete beginner.
A 3x10 rep scheme is a very traditional and famous bodybuilding set up. If your goal is to improve strength without putting on mass then this is perhaps not the best thing for you. It should be better to follow a 5x5 rep scheme because it will strike a middle ground between mass and strength. For more infomation on this look up Mark Rippetoe.
Most of the posters so far have said that one of the benifits of a 3x10 programme is anatomical adaption, which is basically strengthen of tendons and the such. While this is true I am of the opinion that anatomical adaption is more a product of lighter weights and good form than it is of a particular rep scheme. Also the OP mentioned doing weights for a year which would suggest that a period of anatomical adaption may not be necessary.
Keep in mind that basically whatever you do will result in some gains because of neural adaption. Your CNS will recruit more motor units, will recruit motor units more efficently and will increase intermuscular co-ordination and ABOVE all else keep good form in whatever you do!