i have heard and been looking into a style of gong fu named Pai Lum. Has anyone taken it or known anything about it?
You're not referring to Lama Pai are you? Chan Tai San? If so, you can search Steven Ventura and Michael Parella.
I dont think thats it, Pai lum was founded by Daniel K. Pai and is currently headed by Glenn Wilson
Originally Posted by krood1
I suggest reading the following Wiki link, especially the section labeled "Controversy".
From everything I've seen and heard about it, Pai Lum seems to be more closely related to Kenpo than Gong Fu. If your looking for "real" Chinese Gong Fu, this ain't it.
Geez get me all worked up and then don't post the link. Geez.
Oops! Sorry kind of had a rough weekend, not all synapses firing properly.
Originally Posted by It is Fake
Some people claim Glenn Wilson is a fake. At least within the Pai Lum community. Grandmaster Thomas St. Charles (Pai Shin Zan) is the senior most practicioner of Pai Lum. The rumor is that Wilson made false claims after Daniel K. Pai passed away. There are 2 branches of Pai Lum, one of them being Glenn Wilson. He is not thought of well by the other side.
I would suggest contacting Granmaster St. Charles for the real scoop. He will return your e-mails. The system taught by St. Charles is the real deal. I can't speak on what Wilson teaches, but I trained briefly with a Sifu under Grandmaster St. Charles years ago. The training was intense, covered all aspects of fighting, incorporated full contact sparring, as well as traditional kata and chi development exercises. It is an adaptive system with a traditional foundation.
I study BJJ/MMA now, and I still wish I was in a place where I could study the "Dragon" System taught by Grandmaster St. Charles. It's great stuff.
Again, I don't mean to bash Wilson, I'm only repeating what I have heard. And my info did not come from Master St. Charles. Wilson may be the real deal too.
To be fair Ronin didn't say it was bad or not the "real deal".
He just said it was Kenpo; and therefore not "real" CMA/Kung fu.
That doesn't really play (either positive or negative) into whether it's good training- though many are made suspicious by false lineage claims and bogus history of the type outlined in the wikipedia link.
Regardless, if you're looking for real TCMA it's the wrong tree- bark elsewhere.
Last edited by Istislah; 1/18/2008 2:37pm at .
I study Pai Lum Tao, the Glen C. Wilson branch of Pai Lum. Large emphasis on fist sets and compliant drills. They also expect you to buy a lot of equipment, uniforms, patches for the uniform and pretty crappy manuals which don't teach anything and serve mostly to feed Wilson's ego. Seriously, every other page is a full page picture of Wilson in a pose unrelated to the actual text. The sifus run the gamut from fit to morbidly obese, which can be a little off-putting. My sifu has pretty bad Chinese pronunciation, will blindly repeat every kung fu cliche, and believes that movie kung fu is the real thing.
While I'm complaining, they also have an unnatural fascination with groin strikes. It seems every fist set includes a groin strike. How do you practice that in a non-compliant manner?
There are some good things. If you can get it from a Y, the classes can be pretty cheap. I think I pay $80 for three months of instruction. My wife also likes that they teach Tai Chi, and it's something we can do together. They have three different levels of sparring: stop point, continuous point (which goes up to medium contact), and full contact San Shou.
If you can be patient with bull, it can be a fun class experience, and there is enough sparring to keep me happy.
As to the lineage war stuff, I couldn't care less. From what I understand, Pai never had an actual cirriculum, and his followers just adapted their training to Pai's philosophy. So, some of his students have a Hung Gar emphasis and others are more Kempo inspired. There isn't any real "secret" teaching or any magic powers that you get from having the "true" lineage, so what's the point?
To sum up, I wouldn't recomend this if you want to compete in an MMA competition or are seriously concerned about self-defense. But if you want to have a good time and occasional freindly competition, I don't see the harm.
I studied Pai Lum back in the mid 80's in Daytona Beach. I ended up in the army and never got assigned anywhere close to continue. With that being said, I recently watched a Kenpo class here where I live now and from what I saw, there were alot of similar forms and such. It has been a real long time since I studied, but after seeing that, I am considering joining that class. Back in the 80's I did have an oppurtunity to meet Daniel Pai briefly. I will say that at that time, he was pretty decent and treated me very well. The classes were pretty good, and we usually got a pretty good workout along with it (especially with the horse stance). I never was aware of any controversy between the two branches until just recently. Thats too bad it ended up that way. I really enjoyed my classes and learned some good things that helped me out a few times. Also, we got to do concert security back them at the Lakeland civic center (Florida), which was a bonus. I got to do security a few times and earn a few class fee reductions, while getting to see concerts that I would have payed good money to go see anyway. Anyway, sorry about the rambling, it has been a long time since I saw other people familiar with Pai Lum.