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  1. Neo2006 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 3:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Has my school gone McDojo?

    So my main instructor at my BJJ school told us a while back, he was going to be bringing Muay Thai to the school. He apparently went (im not sure how many sessions) to get certified to teach Muay Thai. I think it might have been like a weekend intensive course or something. Its just silly, I walked in to gym to change, he was showing (what I assumed was) video of the muay thai stuff to one of the higher belts and the dude turns the screen away from me (so that I can't see it), and I blatantly had no interest in what they were looking at, just wanted to get my gi on. He changed his angle again (he was standing up and holding the mac), when i walked out.

    Then he was showing some footwork to the higher belt (I guess I was allowed to watch that cause he couldnt say "go wait in the back"), and then as more guys came in, they briefly mentioned the Muay Thai. And one guy said he's been training Muay Thai, and the instructor says "yeah thats how you get bad habits etc." or something like that. From what I heard you learn the footwork, then it goes to pad work. I assume eventually there is sparring. I have no idea if this stuff is gonna cost extra (probably).

    Now I love my school. My instructor is a nice guy, and obviously he is a business man as well, he wants to bring in students etc. Having Muay Thai plus BJJ brings in the TUF newbs. So I guess I can't hate on him wanting to do that. But going to get a certification with a few days of intensive training, ur not gonna be getting the same quality of instruction as from an experienced muay thai trainer.

    I just found the way he acted with the "secrecy" just reeks of "special techniques" and holding back info. I mean cmon, you think I've never seen a Muay Thai match? I dunno whatever. No skin off my back either way. The Muay Thai part isn't being forced on anyone, so I'll just stick to the BJJ.
  2. cyrijl is offline
    cyrijl's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 3:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Really it depends on the context. If he only claims to teach basics and he continues the training himself then there might be no problem. As long as he is honest with his students aobut his credentials.
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  3. Drunken Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 3:41pm


     Style: WHKD & Doce Pares

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When the school where I used to train added Doce Pares for FMA, our instructor let us all know what was going on. He trained quite a bit with Cacoy Canete BEFORE he even started to introduce the curriculum to us. With the FMA that we had already been learning it made for a very easy transition. He also brought in a very qualified FMA instructor to teach most of the FMA classes.
  4. melk is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 4:01pm


     Style: *********

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo2006
    Then he was showing some footwork to the higher belt (I guess I was allowed to watch that cause he couldnt say "go wait in the back"), and then as more guys came in, they briefly mentioned the Muay Thai. And one guy said he's been training Muay Thai, and the instructor says "yeah thats how you get bad habits etc." or something like that. From what I heard you learn the footwork, then it goes to pad work. I assume eventually there is sparring. I have no idea if this stuff is gonna cost extra (probably).

    Now I love my school. My instructor is a nice guy, and obviously he is a business man as well, he wants to bring in students etc. Having Muay Thai plus BJJ brings in the TUF newbs. So I guess I can't hate on him wanting to do that. But going to get a certification with a few days of intensive training, ur not gonna be getting the same quality of instruction as from an experienced muay thai trainer.

    I just found the way he acted with the "secrecy" just reeks of "special techniques" and holding back info. I mean cmon, you think I've never seen a Muay Thai match? I dunno whatever. No skin off my back either way. The Muay Thai part isn't being forced on anyone, so I'll just stick to the BJJ.
    Downing someone's MT training(especially done at another school) is bad. It reeks of Bullshido.

    The secrecy thing is also a warning sign. I have never liked the idea of an MA instructor that wants to hold things, especially techniques, too close to the vest.

    As far as the certification thing, again I would call it into question until he has twenty or thirty MT fights under his belt. If he comes out of 20-30 fights with a winning record, than yes he has something to teach, if not... a few day cert is basics at best. Charging money as a certified MT instructor then seems very dishonest to me.

    All this to say I think you are dealing more with a case of Bullshido and possible MA fraud, as opposed to McDojoism. McDojoism is primarily running classes to get the TKD-moms to bring their kids to your dojo so that you can pay the bills and actually make a living off of it. I don't have a problem with that as long as you admit to it, and possibly also have a real MA program for adults. There are in fact well respected members of this forum that run McDojos so that they can afford to teach MMA. There are times when I taught ROSS that I would run Slavic Dance and movement health classes in order to be able to have training space for Sambo and h2h combatives. I hated it, but I did it, then went and changed into my blood stained and torn training clothes after and got on with the real instruction.

    The Bullshido aspect is more problematic to me, in that he is claiming to be a qualified instructor in something that he knows very little about. In my mind this is where he actually begins to cross a line.
  5. boondock lee is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 6:56pm


     Style: in hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by melk
    Downing someone's MT training(especially done at another school) is bad. It reeks of Bullshido.

    The secrecy thing is also a warning sign. I have never liked the idea of an MA instructor that wants to hold things, especially techniques, too close to the vest.

    As far as the certification thing, again I would call it into question until he has twenty or thirty MT fights under his belt. If he comes out of 20-30 fights with a winning record, than yes he has something to teach, if not... a few day cert is basics at best. Charging money as a certified MT instructor then seems very dishonest to me.

    All this to say I think you are dealing more with a case of Bullshido and possible MA fraud, as opposed to McDojoism. McDojoism is primarily running classes to get the TKD-moms to bring their kids to your dojo so that you can pay the bills and actually make a living off of it. I don't have a problem with that as long as you admit to it, and possibly also have a real MA program for adults. There are in fact well respected members of this forum that run McDojos so that they can afford to teach MMA. There are times when I taught ROSS that I would run Slavic Dance and movement health classes in order to be able to have training space for Sambo and h2h combatives. I hated it, but I did it, then went and changed into my blood stained and torn training clothes after and got on with the real instruction.

    The Bullshido aspect is more problematic to me, in that he is claiming to be a qualified instructor in something that he knows very little about. In my mind this is where he actually begins to cross a line.
    I have to agree to melk here, this is more along the lines of bullshido then MCdojoism. But that doesn't mean that your BJJ instructor is going to cross the line into Bullshido. Maybe your instructor wanted to show off in front of the higher belts....I don't know. The best thing to do is to keep an eye on the situtation and see how it unfolds. If he does start to teach sup par MT, what will you do? Will you continue to attend at your current BJJ school or will go elsewhere?
  6. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 8:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    5:1 Neo didn't hear the pertinent part of the "bad habit" comment.
    6:1 They "hid" the screen from him because he's a tool.
  7. Neo2006 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 10:04pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    5:1 Neo didn't hear the pertinent part of the "bad habit" comment.
    6:1 They "hid" the screen from him because he's a tool.
    Do we know each other?
  8. Severe is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 10:26pm


     Style: Muay Thai, RBSD Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo2006
    Do we know each other?
    only by way of six degrees of separation. apart from that, no, everyone here becomes skilled at bullshit eventually

    as for the MT training, anyone thinking that they can teach good form and techniques from a weekend warrior camp is misguided. it always boosts confidence, but never allows for eact transmission of knowledge.

    also, hiding MT from you, since everyone has seen it, is ridiculous and must surely be either
    1) he is trying to mystify it.
    2) he is hiding his bad form.

    either way, it is a suspicious scenario.

    interest in other arts is a great step in training, but with limited knowledge its plain dangerous and foolish to pass it on to others.

    though without being there, and looking through your eyes, its up in the air whether what you saw was how it looks to us.
    Last edited by Severe; 12/12/2007 12:32am at .
  9. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/12/2007 8:47am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think this is becoming alot more prevalant in the mixing of MT and BJJ and trying to turn it into MMA. I find alot of BJJ'ers who come from MMA schools are not really doing BJJ. (Same with MT.) The instructor maybe trying to go the MMA route....whether this is good or bad is hard to tell.

    By MMA i mean TUF not the training methodology.
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  10. asimpson2006 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/12/2007 10:35am


     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shooting down any training someone may have had is bad. It would like be like having a Ph.D in business adminstration being hired on by a company as a consultant and having them telling your education is no good at all.


    It would be better for someone to come out and say "I've had years or training on the side for this, and a decent amount of fights, now I would like to slowly add it to everyone's training" then for it to be "I've took a four hour couse, now I'm Master in what ever".
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