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  1. Tapout181 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2007 12:14am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, KB, MT, Systema

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    In regards to Systema

    I have been following this forum for a while and today I decided to register and make my first post. Before I go into what I wanted to say I just want to mention my MA background so people know where I am coming from. I did Kick Boxing for 2 years, Muay Thai for 1 year, and BJJ for 2 years (I did TKD for a long time but I really don't consider it an efficient MA so this is the only time I'll ever mention it). I currently started studying Systema and I have noticed a general trend of trashing it on this forum. Many of the statements seem to be uninformed and just wanted to try to clarify things.

    In regards to Systema vs [Random MA] many of the tests done aren't really fair. Systema does not require the practitioner to be in top physical condition to be efficient at it. So, most practitioners don't bother. Thus when comparing systema to let's say, MMA, the quality of the athlete has to be kept in mind. Any fighter with top conditioning and strength training will obviously have an advantage over a fighter without. One also has to keep in mind Brute Force plays a roll. A top MMA fighter really don't stand much chance against, let's say, an angry silverback gorilla. Strength and size obviously gives an advantage, regardless of the system. Systema tries to completely negate the size, strength, and conditioning advantages, but obviously nothing short of a gun is able to do that.

    I have read many threads about Systema vs MMA fighters. This is completely unfair and I will explain why. Systema is not something you can do half assed. In a real fight, a Systema practitioner will strike to the the throat, groin and eyes (in addition to many moves that are illegal in MMA). Obviously in a mock fight, the fighter wont elbow you in the throat to prove he can win... well unless he wants to take the chance of going away for manslaughter. I have noticed however, a Systema striker will probably be overwhelmed by a good boxer or MMA fighter. If at any point it becomes a boxing match, it is obvious who will win. This happens a lot and its because the systema fighter get cracked by the MMA fighter, panics and changes their fighting style. This never turns out well.

    In regards to Systema I feel there are a lot of functions of it that actually work though. What has fascinated me is the concept of a "ballistic punch". Now many people have stated here all it is, is a sucker punch to a weak area. That is partially true. But that doesn't mean it isn't effective. However a ballistic punch is much more than that. The way the energy is released in the punch is quite fascinating. If anyone has ever seen demonstrations where three bricks are stacked, and the top one is hit but the middle one breaks... well, it's sort of like that. The energy of the hit is dispersed in a weird way, where the organs seem to be absorbing most of the blow... not the muscles and skeletal structure. If this is something you can't accept, so be it. But the hits definitely feel different. Sure, a wind up punch from a boxer to the face will probably hurt more, but there is still definitely something to it.

    Now on the topic of the whole "Psychic Energy" thing. Unfortunately because of horrible translation, there are many misconceptions about what this "psychic energy" is. In a recent article, Mikhail Ryabko, clarified this issue (yes, the fat guy). According to him the psychic energy "simply means anything that is not purely physical. I realize this term has a different meaning here, but we don't mean to imply anything magical or mysterious by this. For example, in boxing, if one fighter fakes the other boxer and causes them to lean back without actually throwing a punch, they have just controlled them without physical contact. This can make the more vulnerable for strikes to other areas. They are playing with their opponent's psyche." Most of the misunderstanding of what this psychic energy thing is, is just horrible translation.

    Note: Mikhail Ryabko was not always fat... this is more of a relatively recent event lol

    Additionally, lots of people seem to have issues with how systema practitioners fight against attackers with a knives. I haven't had much practice with this yet but knowing it definitely makes you more effective vs a knife attacker than not knowing it. There are some moves that look incredibly stupid, and can, if done incorrectly, put you in more danger than you would be before. However, it is important to note that the defensive maneuvers are meant to be used in an actual scenario. In that case, your attacker will most likely not be a expert knife fighter. And even if he is, fear, adrenaline and instinct will all play roles in how he attacks. I have gotten in an instance where I have had to use what i learned vs an attacker with a knife. What did i do? I spit in his eyes. Yes, you might think that was incredibly gay but guess what? It got him to close his eyes for a split second. In that time I was then able to disarm him using a technique from systema but combined it with a variant of the BJJ Kimura and ... well his arm made a loud cracking/popping noise. It seemed to have worked, but then, maybe I was lucky. There are probably more effective MAs for dealing with these type of situations, but I can't say so definitively.
    Either way, what I learned from Systema seems to work.

    Systema is not perfect, but neither is any other MA. It is pretty strong on its own but I have noticed if you add in a little submission grappling and muay thai elbows and knees, Systema can develop into a very effective fighting system. There is no silver bullet when it comes to self defense... well actually there is and it's called a gun. Anything short of that will probably have to be taken with a grain of salt.
    The most important thing to realize is, you will not be worse off knowing systema. If you are interested in taking it, give it a shot. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
    If you have any questions I will gladly try to answer them.
    Last edited by Tapout181; 12/06/2007 12:19am at .
  2. CNagy is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/06/2007 12:31am


     Style: Hiatus for Gen. Fitness

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My only advice to you for what is about to happen is to close your eyes and think of Mother Russia.
  3. Tapout181 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2007 12:33am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, KB, MT, Systema

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am from America... and I do realize there is going to be a massive amount of flaming... which is unfortunate lol
  4. SFGOON is offline
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    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2007 12:44am


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh for ****'s sake.

    Where do you train?
  5. aaaargh is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2007 12:46am


     Style: Inept BJJer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm afraid your arguments have been posted and refuted many, many times for many, many martial arts. I hope you realize, everyone from every craptastic martial art out there says, "Well we might lose spectacularly and repeatedly in the ring, but in a real fight we'd bite eyes and gouge the groin." This is a very tired argument.
  6. Tapout181 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2007 12:51am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, KB, MT, Systema

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I trained in Moscow.

    I did not state that Systema is superior to any other fighting style. I just said there are some valuable things in it. A MMA fighter in top shape will probably beat someone trained in Systema. That doesn't mean the system in general is useless. Some one with a gun will usually kill someone carrying a knife. Doesn't mean a knife is useless. Maybe I didn't make that clear...

    Edit: I watched the one systema video on this site... that guy had no idea what he was doing.
  7. SFGOON is offline
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    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2007 12:52am


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    See what you did Tapout? Are you sorry yet?:laughing4

    Based on your SN and "arguments," I would like to be the first person to accuse you of trolling. Who are you really?
  8. Vince Tortelli is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2007 12:54am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by aaaargh
    I'm afraid your arguments have been posted and refuted many, many times for many, many martial arts. I hope you realize, everyone from every craptastic martial art out there says, "Well we might lose spectacularly and repeatedly in the ring, but in a real fight we'd bite eyes and gouge the groin." This is a very tired argument.
    Tommy Speer says "Systema is the strongest way to fight!" WAR TOMMY "SYSTEMA FARMBOY" SPEERS!
  9. SFGOON is offline
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    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2007 12:54am


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    :pancakebu

    Old hat, but how about that pancake bunny?
  10. vigilus is offline
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    Infidel

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2007 12:57am


     Style: Yoshinkan Aikido, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapout181
    I am from America... and I do realize there is going to be a massive amount of flaming... which is unfortunate lol
    This reminds me of girls on the internet

    (You)Can I see a picture?
    (Girl) Umm, okay but don't laugh cause it's a bad pic!

    Bullshit! Your sending what you think is the best fucking picture possible of you. Don't lie. Your just trying to cover your ass chicky.

    Same with these posts. I realize it's going to be a massive flame!
    Bulllllll, you think you covered all the points, dotted the I's crossed the T's.
    Don't be humble.
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