221964 Bullies, 4174 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 41 to 50 of 52
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 6 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Rhineland Pfalz, Der Vaderland
    Posts
    10,588

    Posted On:
    10/30/2003 10:27am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Beatdown Richie
    ronin: just at what point does a practitioner who switches arts become a representative of the new art? I must admit I'm not at all an expert in the early history of judo, but it sounds reasonable that Kano would train people who had previous exposure to other JiuJitsu styles (what other background could they have had?)
    The question is, did they kick ass because Kano somehow attracted the top fighters to his team, or because the training methods he introduced gave them an edge? My money is on the second alternative.
    Ritchie if this was Vegas you would LOSE your money.

    The answer is BOTH. Kano had top fighters and his REintroduction of Randori. Randori was the big difference in training but Kano was not the first to use it. Many ryuha had gotten away from the practice, just called RAN then. But schools like the FUSEN Ryu and Jikishin Judo still had it.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  2. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    20,888

    Posted On:
    10/30/2003 10:54am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The atemi waza in judo came from Tenshin shinyo ryu jujutsu.
    The techniques that Saigo used the most in those matches was, I believe, an aiki jujutsu throw and it was NOT a part of the judo curriculum, too dangerous.
    The throw was the mountain throw or something like that.
    Kano used jujutsu men to beat jujutsu men with thechniques that were either, NOT a part of judo, or where later added on, or even removed because they were to dangerous for sport.
  3. Beatdown Richie is offline
    Beatdown Richie's Avatar

    game dog

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Posts
    1,886

    Posted On:
    10/30/2003 11:18am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Asia, Ronin, thanks for the info. There's a reason I don't like Las Vegas :) .
    There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
  4. blankslate is offline

    WEIGHTING

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    5,538

    Posted On:
    10/30/2003 12:13pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great thread. I think it should be placed in Martial Arts History though.

    I've always thought that MMA will evolve and will end up being the legendary bujutsu we've heard so much about.

    How do I learn more? Are the books you cited a good place to start? Are any of these schools still in existence?
  5. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    20,888

    Posted On:
    10/30/2003 12:38pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the books are a great beginning.
    Amazon, carries them all and more.
    Outside Japan, there are far and few, besr bet, go to your nearest Japanese Cultural Center or embassy and ask for recomendations on traditonal bujutsu teachers, they may not have a "school" perse.
  6. Budd is offline

    Professor of Chaos

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,785

    Posted On:
    10/30/2003 4:27pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by blankslate
    Great thread. I think it should be placed in Martial Arts History though.

    I've always thought that MMA will evolve and will end up being the legendary bujutsu we've heard so much about.

    How do I learn more? Are the books you cited a good place to start? Are any of these schools still in existence?
    Also, as I mentioned previously, go visit Koryu.com , the website maintained by Diane Skoss (she's licensed in two koryu bujutsu) and Meik Skoss (he's licensed in two koryu as well and has the highest teaching license available in the Toda-ha Buko-ryu). Our jojutsukai train as a study group under their direction in Shinto Muso-ryu Jo, with Phil Relnick (Menkyo Kaiden)'s permission. Koryu.com has lots of free articles that give information about the koryu bujutsu (yes, I'm plugging, what the hell), as well as lists of the different ryu-ha that they've encountered.

    *aside*
    ronin69, does Relnick Sensei oversee your group's TSKSR practice? I'm pretty sure I remember that Otake Sensei and Iizasa (current headmaster -- I'm not sure of the honorific) directed that Relnick Sensei be in charge of TSKSR in North America. Also, I'm curious, is your jujutsu study drawn from the TSKSR curriculum or is it a more modern form? If I'm too nosy, just tell me to shut it :)
    *aside*

    As far as my limited understanding of the koryu goes, many are comprehensive systems that encompass the study of a variety of weapons. If you're interested in how the koryu bujutsu are actually still practiced in Japan, check out 'Old School', by Ellis Amdur. Ellis studied in Japan for 13 years and earned teaching licenses in two koryu (Toda-ha Buko-ryu and Araki-ryu). Our aikido classes follow his curriculum and we have him out to our dojo for fairly intense seminars from time to time.

    At any rate, if you're looking to study koryu, either go to Japan and find a legitimate ryu, or find someone here who has . . . my understanding is that it's still a pretty small world of koryu exponents in the United States, so do some research on the sites I mentioned and follow ronin69's advice as well, then ask around here and on E-Budo.com (they have areas of the BBS reserved for koryu-related discussions).
  7. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    20,888

    Posted On:
    10/30/2003 4:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    *aside*
    ronin69, does Relnick Sensei oversee your group's TSKSR practice? I'm pretty sure I remember that Otake Sensei and Iizasa (current headmaster -- I'm not sure of the honorific) directed that Relnick Sensei be in charge of TSKSR in North America. Also, I'm curious, is your jujutsu study drawn from the TSKSR curriculum or is it a more modern form? If I'm too nosy, just tell me to shut it
    *aside*

    Yes, I would assume so, my forte is the Yagyu Shinkage ryu by the way.
    I have been exposed to the yawara of the Shinto ryu, but my experince is from the Tenshin Shinyo ryu.
    I would love to be exposed more to the TSKSR, do you know of any here in Canada??
    Other than at the Japanese Cultural Center?
  8. blankslate is offline

    WEIGHTING

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    5,538

    Posted On:
    10/30/2003 4:34pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks Budd. Harrisburg, the capitol of PA, humph.

    This is hopeless. We'll never really know what those original systems consisted of. Better to just keep evolving what we have and then name it BUDOSHIN!!!

    Actually, this is true, we can always learn something from the past but hopefully we can evolve to equal and eventually surpass what was done before.
  9. Budd is offline

    Professor of Chaos

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,785

    Posted On:
    10/30/2003 4:52pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by ronin69

    I would love to be exposed more to the TSKSR, do you know of any here in Canada??
    Other than at the Japanese Cultural Center?
    I don't, not off the top of my head, since I've mostly encountered the jojutsukai of SMR Jo. There seem to be more than a few that study both, though, since Relnick Sensei is the leading exponent of SMR & TSKSR in North America, so let me ask my instructor this weekend. I'll send you a PM if I find out anything.
  10. Budd is offline

    Professor of Chaos

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,785

    Posted On:
    10/30/2003 5:04pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by blankslate
    Thanks Budd. Harrisburg, the capitol of PA, humph.
    What, are you saying that I'm surrounded by crooked politicians and a nuclear power plant (Three Mile Island)?

    At least its not Florida :p


    This is hopeless. We'll never really know what those original systems consisted of. Better to just keep evolving what we have and then name it BUDOSHIN!!!
    I see nothing wrong at all with evolving our understanding of combatives. I just think it's helpful to have good teachers/instructors/trainers to guide us along that path.


    Actually, this is true, we can always learn something from the past but hopefully we can evolve to equal and eventually surpass what was done before.
    Most of the koryu folks that I know study modern arts as well as koryu. Meik Skoss trains in judo, Ellis Amdur cross trains in a number of different grappling styles (and has great respect for BJJ). I think it really boils down to:

    1) What goals do you have for training?

    2) What kind of people do you want to train with?

    3) What is available in your area? Are you willing to move/commute to gain access to training?

    I also personally think that it's good to keep training in perspective and have a healthy sense of humor about the whole thing. There are plenty of wiser and tougher people than me on this board that have already noted -- there's always someone better.

    I think it's just a matter of being the best you can be.
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 6 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.