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  1. Budd is offline

    Professor of Chaos

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2003 11:52am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the problem lies in that, unless you do some research on what school/style's afiliation/roots are, you might genuinely think you're studying an ancient form of Gimme Yo Mani Jujutsu, only to find out later after having spent precious time and money, that the instructor made up the style based on a few weekends worth of judo classes at the YMCA. So, as a result, people's respect for traditional jujutsu (or traditional martial arts in general) begins to erode.

    Not that I have anything against the YMCA (I spent several years training in karate in one) . . . it's just that, from a standpoint of a newbie with zero experience, whose word do you go by? Do you follow the marketing ads, "My Jiu Jeetsue is strongest!" in the yellow pages and internet? Do you listen to your friends? How do you know if you're doing the real stuff? I think we're going to see, if it's not already apparent, a number of people claiming to teach BJJ, then being revealed as being fraudulent. I can see it now, "Fernando Chiquita, heir of the secret system of Portugese Jujootsu".

    How does this relate to traditional jujutsu? Well, if you're trying to learn an older style of it, how do you go about finding a teacher? Being in the United States, there are only a few koryu exponents that I know of that have spent time in Japan learning their stuff -- Meik and Diane Skoss, Ellis Amdur, Phil Relnick . . just to name several. Chip Armstrong is the current director of the International Hoplology Society, which was founded by Draeger, and maintains a website at .http://www.hoplology.com

    Diane Skoss also maintains an excellent website Koryu.com which has many articles that detail some of the catalogued Japanese koryu. Her 'Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan' Series (of which, I believe, there are three volumes) that she edits do an excellent job of continuing the work begun by Donn Draeger in his original volumes. As ronin69 pointed out, many of the koryu are battlefield systems that address weapons and empty handed techniques .

    My own feeling is that it's very important to be familiar with the ranges of unarmed engagements, e.g. if someone shoots in for your legs, kicks at your head, throws
    a fast hook or tries to choke you out -- none of these things should be experienced for the first time on the street. The dojo is the place to learn without fear (hopefully) of permanent injury. I also think that nothing makes you appreciate distance and timing like someone swinging a weapon at you.
    Last edited by Budd; 10/29/2003 11:58am at .
  2. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2003 12:38pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for posting the "hopology" website, I neglected to add that.
  3. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2003 1:56pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Many think that the techniques of GJJ are unique, and they are not, many see GJJ and see the limitations and think ALL JJ is like that, it is not.
  4. elipson is offline
    elipson's Avatar

    Ad Hominem rocks.

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2003 3:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Does anyone find it strange that our resident master of JJJ, Blade, is absent from this conversation???
    :)
  5. Choke is offline

    The REAL thread killer

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2003 4:29pm


     Style: World 10-3 Ryu Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Edge
    There is no reason to regard TJJJ as outdated. If TJJJ was the inspiration for Gracie JuJitsu then it is just another example of how we can mold our arts to fit our goals and body types.

    STFU n3wb!!!!1

    BJJ is derived from Judo not JJJ.
    "The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."

    -- George Bernard Shaw
  6. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2003 4:30pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Would be nice to hear his opinion.
  7. fragbot is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2003 5:15pm


     Style: japanese jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Maybe Asia'll help me out

    Originally posted by Choke
    STFU n3wb!!!!1

    BJJ is derived from Judo not JJJ.
    But it's possible (likely?) that Kodokan judo was still called kodokan jujutsu when Maeda left on his barnstorming tour.
  8. Choke is offline

    The REAL thread killer

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2003 7:35pm


     Style: World 10-3 Ryu Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "But it's possible (likely?) that Kodokan judo was still called kodokan jujutsu when Maeda left on his barnstorming tour."

    I'm pretty sure it was still called Kodokan Judo. Good question.

    However the similarities between Kodokan Judo and BJJ are much easier to see than with JJJ and BJJ.
    "The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."

    -- George Bernard Shaw
  9. NSLightsOut is offline
    NSLightsOut's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2003 8:58pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At the time Maeda left Japan, I believe the two terms (Kodokan Judo and Kodokan Jujitsu) were interchangeable.
  10. Pandinha is offline

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2003 10:10pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Edge
    http://www.gracieacademy.com/generations/helio.shtml



    Choke, there is a big difference between Judo and JuJitsu. Maybe you are just a newbie to the MA world? I suggest you do some research.
    Choke a newbie. Good one.

    Why don't you explain to us Edge the differences in Judo and JJJ.

    Please explain to everyone why Randori was so important.

    Please also touch up on differences in techniques pre WWII and post.

    After you are done with that, a brief explanation of what Kosen JJ did for Judo would be appreciated too.

    Of course everyone knows the rules, and that Judo is a sport, so you don't have to expound on that part of the differences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
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