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  1. BogsieMugsie is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2008 10:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Art
    Listen here BM, you were the one that suggested the medicine ball, if you really play that way then that's fine but at this point you sound like a keyboard mouthboxing fucktard who will never make a trip across the pond to play out your little threats.
    Hey, Art. I don't intend to diminish the quality of your life by using stress and anger tactics against you. I was reserving those for Oldman34 so he can have a few sleepless nights and pump up his blood pressure. I was trying to make you smile, see. :qleft1:
    Last edited by BogsieMugsie; 1/25/2008 10:20pm at .
  2. Art is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2008 10:32pm


     Style: TKD, wrestling, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    That article was just one among many that I have read. . . saw several changes in WTF TKD that ensured safety to the practitioner and improved explosive speed dramatically with the incorporation of plyometrics and measuring equipments.
    Yes again I'm not disagreeing with you in this aspect, no exercise were mentioned in the article.
    I also found out that WTF TKD's warm up and stretching exercises are more complete from the head down to the foot compared with karate, kung fu, judo, TRACMA and Yawyan.
    Have you studied all the above mentioned arts?
    Moreover, I have observed that WTF TKD, at least in my place, kept on innovating on safety gear and it appears to have more safety gear compared to other MAs that I have encountered.
    I thought you were initially against this did you not say in post 98
    Quote Originally Posted by Post 98
    1. Poor impact training due to safety gear and training focus. Pure WTF TKD practitioners are usually poor at giving and receiving pain without the armors.
    Fortunately I agree with the above for the most part.
    In short, WTF TKD is not close-minded in improving the art. The only negative observation that I have of WTF TKD is that it's being focused purely on sports.
    The mandate of the WTF is to promote and develop the sport of TKD. They have nothing to do with the art.
    Of course, I have also seen several videos of TKD practitioners being clobbered in just a few seconds by BJJ fighters and Muay Thai fighters in MMA matches. (This is often the case, mind you.) But I have also seen several streetfight videos, riot videos, and actual selfdefense situation videos where punches and kicks are employed more often and more effectively against weapons and multiple attackers. In addition, I have personally seen actual self defense situations where speed (more than strength or size) and equipment (weapons) always determined the outcome of the fight in favor of the quicker, smarter, and well-equipped fighter.
    Observing does not skill make. How are you able to train the techniques you see in a video without a live resisting opponent. How are you able to teach your children these things if you have no experience in them yourself.

    I should be the king **** at hockey since I'm pretty sure I've seen much more hockey than you've seen riot videos (I'm pretty sure it's the law here that ever Saturday night at least one person per household is watching the game).
    So I said to myself, if there are 2 million martial artists in the US out of a population of +280 million, the chance that a trained martial artist is going to defend himself against an untrained attacker is higher compared to a trained one. Moreover, if majority of the 2 million martial artists take TKD, then the chance that a TKD practitioner will defend himself against a BJJ or Muay Thai fighter in the US is lower compared to defending against another TKD practitioner. Of course, these assumptions are invalid if you have a career in the martial arts as a professional MMA fighter or as a professional martial arts instructor.
    These stats are irrelevant as I believe it has been established you are based in the philipines. In addition estimate statistical data is generally irrelevant as the margin of error is way to huge to offer any sort of proper gauge to base any resonible hypothesis on.


    In a life and death situation, for instance, when a drug-crazed or steroid-crazed street thug who is trained in BJJ attacks (of course, this is unlikely since legit BJJ gyms are still scarce here)
    Hypocrisy for the win. How do you know BJJ folks are drug/steroid crazed if there is only the rare legit BJJ gym around you. Please don't paint practicioners with a wide brush, it's unbecoming of my intellectual superior.
    one of my kids with a double leg takedown, my kid will likely change his angle, bash the attacker's head with an improvised nunchaku or stab the nape, spine, or carotid artery with a yawara stick with a switch-on needle. When my kid falls down, he's going to try to go for the close guard and stab the attacker's eardrums and push the stick right through the brain. He can also bite off the ears or neck or execute a head butt. The possibilities are many you know.
    By a raise of hands from those reading, how many predicted this answer?
    How does he change his angle? How does he control attacker momentum? Where does he have the improvised weapons stored? How do you practice this to insure that it will be a successful delivery of the technique? Do you know diseases transmitted through the blood are on the rise? You headbutt me from the bottom you better expect your head to be bounced around like a basketball after.
    Of course, an MMA sportfight will not allow those moves. As for the element of surprise, now that I've mentioned some counters, those counters will not be surprises anymore. But looking at it positively, a BJJ street thug or BJJ mugger is unlikely much more one who reads a Bullshido post.:sleepy2:
    I'm glad you took the time to address the double leg. How about doing something for another BJJ technique. I don't know why don't you pick something and technically describe the counter for it. I'm interested in hearing your approach from your informal grappling training.
  3. BogsieMugsie is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2008 10:35am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Formal and Informal MA Training and Other Concerns

    WTF TKD safety gear has its benefits. The greatest of which is that WTF TKD safety gear provides greater opportunities for fighting. However, it also has its drawbacks. The greatest of which is that safety gear can encourage poor or no impact training. As a martial arts dad, I encourage WTF TKDís benefits as well as address its limitations during informal training. This is the reason why I provide controlled impact training for my kids. Impact training can be classified into two: (1) giving pain and (2) receiving pain. For giving pain, striking areas such as the shin, elbows, knuckles, ridge hand, knife hand, palm, forearm, heel, and others are gradually hardened using several equipments such as the heavy bag, the makiwara, rubber tires, hard lumber wrapped in abaca fiber, banana tree trunks, iron weights, hollow blocks, coco lumber and others. For receiving pain, I give my kids actual blows with gradual intensities as well as spar them with one another with gradual intensities. The idea is that resistance to pain can be learned gradually and that a knockout situation can be simulated so that human bodies can gradually adapt to a similar situation. If your kids cannot learn these from a formal martial arts school, we as martial arts parents can supplement this lack during informal training. Another option is to cross train them in other martial arts styles that incorporate impact training in their curriculum.

    Formal training in a martial arts school also has its benefits. Your kids can gain many friends as well as they can have more opportunities for fighting different fighters with different ways of fighting and characteristics (tall, short, muscular, couch potato, quick, quicker, slow, heavy, thin, etc.) in a controlled environment. However, it can also have its drawbacks depending on the training curriculum or training focus of the martial arts school. Of course, lazy instructors, including those who are narrow-minded, are also common. Martial arts parents can supplement MA school formal training in order to address certain formal MA school drawbacks. On the other hand, informal training has its drawbacks too. One is that fighting opportunities could be limited prior to exposure in an uncontrolled environment. The idea is to achieve a reasonable balance between formal and informal MA school training until your kids are ready for testing in an uncontrolled environment such as a street-mugging situation for instance. As a bachelor, after gaining enough confidence on a certain martial arts skill in gym spars and competition fights, I test such skills informally in uncontrolled environments. I will intentionally walk a dimly lit street at 2 to 3 am, bring out my wallet, flash a few thousand pesos, then Iím in business when two or three muggers come near for the trap. Most of these informal fights were quick stand up fights though.

    As for grappling experience, I would say these are quite limited. Back in college, several martial arts enthusiasts formed a mixed martial arts organization and I was lucky to be one of the pioneers. A judo brown belt was generous enough to teach me a few falling, rolling, throwing, and grappling techniques including the yawara stick and a few sparring lessons. I also had a Kung Fu brod who was always drunk and taught me the deadliest and most effective unarmed martial arts techniques I have ever known. I also received actual full power blows from these guys on a regular basis for, as they say, Ďimpact trainingí. Perhaps the best grappling experience I had was against my elder brother who claimed to be a judo varsity player in his university. One day, we had an altercation that led to a rapid exchange of martial arts techniques. He lost in the unarmed combat part so he went inside the house and got a bolo. I will not elaborate further on this. However, after a few years, the same elder brother, together with some karate black belts, attacked some Tausug buddies in a dormitory. He was lucky that he could run fast because he only got a hack on the face from a kris while several of his karate buddies got several stabs and hacks and were almost killed. They were confined anonymously for more than a month in a hospital.

    At best, thatís a quick view of my informal martial arts training at a certain period in time. I donít know if some of those experience would belong to the Ďagainst a live resisting opponentí category or not. But damn. I almost got killed many times if not for certain MA techniques that really worked for me. Now, I hope you guys wonít take it against me if I passed these techniques on to my kids through informal training.

    For martial arts parents out there who take an extra time to train their kids, isnít it fulfilling to see your kid win a competition fight, gain confidence after the fight, and conquer his/her stage fright afterwards? Now, that win from a sport fight doesnít mean that your kids can defend themselves from actual self-defense situations. Itís our responsibility to train them minus the bullshit and crap that we commonly see in many martial arts schools. In this regard, we can say that Bullshido is a good start for gaining a wide perspective on the martial arts and the bullshit and crap that goes with it.

    So Art, did I answer most of your questions?
  4. Art is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2008 1:55pm


     Style: TKD, wrestling, BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    . . . . stuff was said
    So Art, did I answer most of your questions?
    That had to be the biggest pile of **** that I have read from you thus far.
    Short answer no. Long answer: stop relating anecdotal stories to try an improve your credibility; thereby, justifing your stance. You haven't answered ****. Again just so you can see what I'm asking
    Quote Originally Posted by Art
    How does he change his angle? How does he control attacker momentum? Where does he have the improvised weapons stored? How do you practice this to insure that it will be a successful delivery of the technique? Do you know diseases transmitted through the blood are on the rise?
    Furthermore

    Quote Originally Posted by Art
    How about doing something for another BJJ technique. I don't know why don't you pick something and technically describe the counter for it. I'm interested in hearing your approach from your informal grappling training.
    Again I'm not looking for your training resume, I'm looking for you to describe in detail how your informal training would deal with this. I am not looking for a story about you and your brother having a "rapid exchange of martial art technique". That tells me **** all.

    I'll address issues in your previous post once you answer these questions.

    Anyone else want to weigh in?
  5. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/26/2008 2:17pm

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     Style: Karate/ Arnis

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have been in several Jello wrestling tournaments with very skilled women in Bikinis,


    Therefore, my K4r4t3 Gr4pp1!ng is the best Evah!













    Nice try, Baloney_Merchant,

    but no one is buying your wares.
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

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  6. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2008 11:32pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by *****
    Stop those excuses. I'm going to send an actual selfdefense situation waiver on the email address you provided a few days from now. The email address looks phony though and it appears it isn't yours.
    Its real, and its mine.

    BAN PLZ
  7. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/27/2008 8:56am

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    That article was just one among many that I have read.
    Please post the others then. I am interested in reading them.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    Actually I have saved several webpages and pdf files of TKD studies for the goal 'minimum injury (to my kids) and maximum damage (to opponents).
    Again, please post those too.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    I started practicing WTF TKD and a load of other MAs since 1986 and saw several changes in WTF TKD that ensured safety to the practitioner and improved explosive speed dramatically with the incorporation of plyometrics and measuring equipments.
    You do know that these improvements werent just limited to WTF TKD right? They are used in other sports as well. They werent developed by the WTF.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogiseMugsie
    I also found out that WTF TKD's warm up and stretching exercises are more complete from the head down to the foot compared with karate, kung fu, judo, TRACMA and Yawyan.
    What do you base this on? Do you hold ranks in any of these styles, or are you going from your "informal" training?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    Moreover, I have observed that WTF TKD, at least in my place, kept on innovating on safety gear
    Please tell of the innovations that are WTF specific, better yet post pictures of the "innovations" your school has made in safety gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    and it appears to have more safety gear compared to other MAs that I have encountered. (Fortunately, MAs in my area are now using WTF TKD equipment in their training sessions.)
    I havent ever seen WTF specific safety gear. Last time I called Century Martial Arts, they didnt ask if I was taking WTF TKD.


    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    In short, WTF TKD is not close-minded in improving the art. The only negative observation that I have of WTF TKD is that it's being focused purely on sports.
    Contradiction.
    How can an art NOT be closed minded to improving the art, yet be purely focused on the sport aspect? (Nothing wrong with the sport aspect of TKD, it just that it seems to breed people like you who think it is the end all MA)


    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    So I said to myself, if there are 2 million martial artists in the US out of a population of +280 million, the chance that a trained martial artist is going to defend himself against an untrained attacker is higher compared to a trained one.
    Does this "fact" of yours take into account people who box, or are not currently taking a MA yet have done so in the past?
    How about High School wrestling?
    It seems that this "fact" falls in line with your other ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    Moreover, if majority of the 2 million martial artists take TKD, then the chance that a TKD practitioner will defend himself against a BJJ or Muay Thai fighter in the US is lower compared to defending against another TKD practitioner.
    Of course, you have contradicted yourself again.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    For starters, early 2007, I found a Muay Thai gym that charges less than 1/8 the price of the TKD gym my kids go to. As expected, most of the practitioners there are street thugs out to pick a fight at the slightest cue that they interpret as aggression.
    So if your theory held true , I would more likely be attacked by a MT practitioner. Since TKDoers are better educated and the future leaders of the world....right?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    In a life and death situation, for instance, when a drug-crazed or steroid-crazed street thug who is trained in BJJ attacks (of course, this is unlikely since legit BJJ gyms are still scarce here) one of my kids with a double leg takedown, my kid will likely change his angle, bash the attacker's head with an improvised nunchaku or stab the nape, spine, or carotid artery with a yawara stick with a switch-on needle. When my kid falls down, he's going to try to go for the close guard and stab the attacker's eardrums and push the stick right through the brain. He can also bite off the ears or neck or execute a head butt. The possibilities are many you know.
    Your kid must have BIG mouth to bite off someones neck. Has you kid trained like this? I mean without his "WTF Innovated Safety Gear"? Does he know what its like to be body slammed?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    Of course, an MMA sportfight will not allow those moves. As for the element of surprise, now that I've mentioned some counters, those counters will not be surprises anymore. But looking at it positively, a BJJ street thug or BJJ mugger is unlikely much more one who reads a Bullshido post.
    First, MMA is a sport.
    Second , I doubt that "the cats out of the bag" and BJJ is in any danger.
    Third, Its not the art but the TRAINING METHODOLOGY.
    Fourth, I started a thread about this last bit of insanity.

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65558
    Last edited by HonkyTonkMan; 1/27/2008 9:24am at .
  8. EternalRage is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/27/2008 12:44pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

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    Quote Originally Posted by BogsieMugsie
    First, BJJ became so successful in the earlier UFCs due to the element of surprise. Other MA style artists were simply untrained to address those judo innovations that the Gracies made.
    Ok... yeah so grappling is now pretty much a requirement if you want to be well rounded and survive in MMA.

    In a life and death situation, for instance, when a drug-crazed or steroid-crazed street thug who is trained in BJJ attacks (of course, this is unlikely since legit BJJ gyms are still scarce here) one of my kids with a double leg takedown, my kid will likely change his angle, bash the attacker's head with an improvised nunchaku or stab the nape, spine, or carotid artery with a yawara stick with a switch-on needle. When my kid falls down, he's going to try to go for the close guard and stab the attacker's eardrums and push the stick right through the brain. He can also bite off the ears or neck or execute a head butt. The possibilities are many you know.
    You fight the way you train. If you train these things in a compliant manner, then you won't be able to respond adequately in a fight. That's the problem with using eye gouges, stabs, whatever as a primary defense. Sure, there's the offchance that you might keep composure long enough to think to yourself, "poke him in the eye" - but the level of valuable resistance training that you've had is the same as the drug crazed BJJer, thus he has the same propensity to use said techniques on you (and probably would be in a much better position on the ground to do so).

    Of course, an MMA sportfight will not allow those moves.
    Of course not. I can't believe people who do TMA are still using this as some sort of excuse to imply that MMA is somewhat inferior in terms of addressing the reality of a live situation. MMA is the loosest ruleset the law will allow, where you can train techniques with resistance - techniques that are supposed to make up the backbone of a given fighter's way of fighting. Just because you can't use a minority of techniques which are impossible to train properly, doesn't take anything away from MMA. It is still the best preparation out there. I find it funny when TMAers say "MMA is just a sport" and then go point spar or strap on giant maxipads and skip kick all day long, and then do a couple shitty hosinsuls that wouldn't work on a paraplegic.
  9. kultist is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2008 5:09pm


     Style: BJJ, JJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Of course, an MMA sportfight will not allow those moves.
    Dude, i totally hate to break it to you, but neither will TKD sparring.
  10. BogsieMugsie is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2008 7:36pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Art
    1. Yes again I'm not disagreeing with you in this aspect, no exercise were mentioned in the article.
    It quoted some researchers' general opinion on TKD exercise being good.

    2. Have you studied all the above mentioned arts?
    Already answered this several posts back.

    3. I thought you were initially against this did you not say in post 98
    In the same post, I was also for WTF TKD safety gear. A similar concept in economics is on positive and negative externalities.

    4. Fortunately I agree with the above for the most part.
    No comment.

    5. The mandate of the WTF is to promote and develop the sport of TKD. They have nothing to do with the art.
    Changes in the sport such as the 7 point gap rule have profound changes or effects in the art.

    6. Observing does not skill make. How are you able to train the techniques you see in a video without a live resisting opponent. How are you able to teach your children these things if you have no experience in them yourself.
    Skills development and accumulation goes through several stages. One such stage is observation. It's called the learning process. As for the physical aspect of MA skills development, I agree with your how statements without the question marks. I have developed a training regimen for my kids though that uses formal and informal components.


    7. These stats are irrelevant as I believe it has been established you are based in the philipines. In addition estimate statistical data is generally irrelevant as the margin of error is way to huge to offer any sort of proper gauge to base any resonible hypothesis on.
    Let's just say that we have a 1,000% margin of error. That's 20 million trained martial artists as against +260 million ordinary people. Being in the Philippines is irrelevant since statistical figures on the US are now readily available in the Internet. For Philippine stats, we have some 500 thousand WTF TKD practitioners here. Assuming that we are in the minority, let's apply the Pareto Principle, the 80/20 rule. This means that there would be around 2.5 million martial artists in my country out of +80 million people. That's 2.5 million martial artists versus +77.5 million ordinary people.

    Art, this is one of the reasons why I only agreed that your analysis of the article provided was excellent. However, most of your opinions are flawed.

    8. Hypocrisy for the win. How do you know BJJ folks are drug/steroid crazed if there is only the rare legit BJJ gym around you. Please don't paint practicioners with a wide brush, it's unbecoming of my intellectual superior.
    It's called a what-if scenario to illustrate the unlikely possibility that a drug-crazed or steroid-crazed street mugger or street thug would be a trained BJJ expert out to endanger your life and test your martial arts skills in an actual self-defense situation.

    9. By a raise of hands from those reading, how many predicted this answer?
    How does he change his angle? How does he control attacker momentum? Where does he have the improvised weapons stored? How do you practice this to insure that it will be a successful delivery of the technique? Do you know diseases transmitted through the blood are on the rise? You headbutt me from the bottom you better expect your head to be bounced around like a basketball after.
    I'll share an improvised nunchaku training method with you folks out there. Here it is.

    A. TRAINING EQUIPMENT. For the improvised nunchaku, get two bandanas, a padlock, and a rubber ball about 2-3 inches in diameter. The rubber ball should have some air space at the center. Tennis balls and golf balls are not recommended for safety reasons. For the knife, get a plastic spatula. For the armors, use a WTF TKD head gear and a standard body armor.

    B. IMPROVISED NUNCHAKU. Hold a bandana from end-to-end and roll it in the air. Now, insert one end at the handle bar of a padlock and pull it up so you can hold both ends of the bandana while the padlock stays at the middle by force of gravity. Next, tie a knot around the padlock handlebar to keep the padlock in place. This improvised nunchaku will be the real weapon that you're going to work with. As for the training equipment, spread the other bandana on a table. Now, place the rubber ball at the center of the bandana and pull all four corners of the bandana up where all ends meet. The ball should stay inside the bandana right at the center. Next, hold the ball at the bandana center in one hand and tie a knot at the neck of the ball inside the cloth to keep the rubber ball in place. This improvised nunchaku with the rubber ball shall serve as your training equipment.

    C. MASTERY OF MOVEMENT. Mark a big 'X' in the air using your improvised nunchaku. Make sure that all striking motions must be executed in a downward manner. For safety measures, you can start with an empty hanky. When you feel confident with the movements, progress with the bandana-rubber-ball. Ultimately, practice with the bandana and padlock.

    D. ATTACK-DEFEND MANEUVERS. Ask a partner to wear a WTF TKD headgear and equip him/her with the spatula. Wear the WTF TKD body armor and equip yourself with the bandana with rubber ball. The attacker should try to stab and slash you as fast as he/she could at your body armor. If the attacker successfully stabs or slashes at you, he/she earns a point. As defender, you can side-step in place, side-step backwards, or side-step forward and bash the head of the attacker with the rubber ball. If you bash the attacker's head, you earn a point. Successive bashes should earn you many points. The idea is that the person who hits the target first earns a point or series of points. Repeat the maneuvers as many times as you could.

    NOTE that the bandana is not a deadly or illegal weapon. You can keep this in your pockets. As for the padlock, you can wear this on any belt handle of your pants. Of course, you can also pick up a rock, use glass shards, ash tray or any readily available hard object to replace the padlock. For the nunchaku chain, you can use your hanky, bandana, shoe string, necklace, leather belt and so on. Happy training!
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