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  1. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2007 4:31pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    BJJ + Bad lower back... Heaven or Hell?

    (if this is the wrong place to post, please move it)


    Back issues and BJJ without ending up in a walker. I seem to recall other people (Upa?) posting about this, but I can't find it.


    So I ask you: will I be able to do the BJJ if I have to avoid positions that put a lot of stress on a lower back? If you're doing the bjj with back problems, how do you cope? Any tips or tricks? What did your instructor do differently for you?




    Thanx dudes.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  2. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2007 5:22pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here are the areas I see potential problems
    1 - Stacking guard pass. Someone might try to pass your guard by stackking your legs (ankles) behind your head.

    2 - In the scramble for position. I would say this is where the majority of injuries (including my own brokwn hand) appear to come from.

    3 - Body/spine locks are illegal in most bjj schools/tourneys, but you might get a knee in the back sometimes in transition.

    4 - Over stretched hamstrings. This can happen quite a few ways. Since I don't know your specific injury and am not a dr. I can't say for sure, but sometimes my lower back hurts if I have to stretch my hams too much.

    5 - Takedowns (obvious...but similar to scrambles)

    Most of these things can be avoided, as long as you only roll with reasonable ppl and stay away from noobs, but you just never know.

    I herniated my c6-c7 disks as well as have quite a few bad ones (the dr told me). I try to stay away from neck cranks and tap early to any form of strain or potential bad twist. I have really restricted who I roll with now. I still go with tough guys, but tough guys with good technique and control.

    I think alot of it also depends on the type of school. Is it a bjj school or an MMA school which teaches 'bjj'? Have you gone there for a while or is it new to you?

    I hope this was somewhat helpfeul (esp since you were so helpful on my 5x5 thread)
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  3. Longhorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2007 5:25pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    what exactly is the nature of your back injury?
  4. sui generis is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2007 5:33pm


     Style: PersonalDefenseReadiness

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Eddie Bravo mentions in his rubber guard book, that especially active guardwork with all the twisting involved puts a lot of stress on your lower back. To avoid it he shows some helpful exercises to stretch + strenghten your back in it. So go and get it, its a good investment anyway ;)
  5. RobT is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2007 5:45pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You use your lower back all the time in BJJ, so it's going to be hard.

    Have you got a specific back problem?

    I would recommend stretches and deadlifts if it's possible. Obviously this may be completely out of the question for you.
  6. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2007 8:15pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    STOP PUTTING HEALTH CRAP IN DHS!!!
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  7. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2007 7:44am

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is it a bjj school or an MMA school which teaches 'bjj'? Have you gone there for a while or is it new to you?
    It's pure BJJ, gi and not. The way it works at my school is there's a bjj class 2x a week, a MT/boxing class 3x a week, and MMA on saturday to bring it together. I was doin MT (l like hitting) and I've done a few gi classes at another school. I was thinking bjj becasue of doc's orders about avoiding jarring impacts.

    what exactly is the nature of your back injury?
    I have advanced "degenerative disc disease" from l3 to s1. It seems to be doctor speak for "your disks are gone omg sux 2 B U:((((". For treatment there is only spinal fusion surgery and all that fun-ness or I take tons of pain pills.

    The doc's orders are "don't lift anything heavy and avoid any jarring impacts. Take it easy. Let pain be your guide." I know I'm pushing it, but fucking christ I'm too young to be stuck on the couch for the rest of my life.


    RE: I'll grab that rubber guard book. :5thanks:


    I'm already doing everything right as far as PT goes. My flexability is pretty good, but I'm not supposed to deadlift. Might do it anyway just so my weight set doesn't rust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius
    STOP PUTTING HEALTH CRAP IN DHS!!!
    A thousand pardons master. I do hope you'll see fit to punish me...

    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2007 1:24pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PJ, have you considered Bikram, Hot or Iyengar Yoga? One of my ex g/f's suffered a car accident, leading her to chronic back pain. She took up Ashtanga Yoga (the bad ass power form of yoga) and that helped her strenghen her back. I would not suggest to take on Ashtanga cold turkey, though. Bikram is good, and Iyengar is known for using props and adjustments as necessary.

    If you want to do deadlifts, you may want to get some resistance bands and use them (by themselves or in tied to the barbell). The beauty of this is that the load is proportional to the angle of hip and lumbar extension in which you are strongest. The more you are bent, the lesser the load.



    The red and yellow bands in the clickable picture above are generic bands from sports authority. I grab a bunch of them for one-leg presses and one-leg deadlifts, been doing that for a few months now. Everytime I deadlift I hit my sciatica on my right glute, and using these puppies have helped me lesser the impact. They are great for shoulder external rotator work as well.

    The big ones in the pictures are bands #1, #2, and #3 from iron woody fitness, each one providing 5-35lbs, 10-50lbs and 25-80lbs of resistance respectively. The whole package costs less than $90 bucks. You can double tie two #3 bands (or grab at an appropriate lenght) and deadlift with a resistance starting at approx 50lbs up at the lower portion of the lift to 160lbs during lockout.

    This gradual accomodation of resistance should help you while keeping it safe. Play it safe dude.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. kismasher is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2007 1:51pm

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     Style: fitness

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    find a chiropractor you trust. my instructor recommended the one i go to now.

    i'm dealing with a partially separated shoulder and some neck issues myself right now and i can tell you that my chiro has been a godsend. he/she will help keep your spine healthy.
  10. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2007 3:44pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The thing about what i have is that it's not going to get better. Ever. Game over. The doc was very blunt that this is a "rest of my days" problem like diabetes or something and I need to stop thinking "how do fix?" and start planning on living like this.

    The spinal specialists I'm seeing are considered the best in the state (S.E Spine institute) and they have PT and chiro resources but they're not considered nessessary for my case. I had to make some noise to go to the PT I'm seeing now since it's not really going to help matters - just make it easier to live with. Fucking insurance companies.


    Macho - i was doign hatha yoga since my last back drama (props to holy cow yoga center) and you're right. It helped a LOT. but stopped per my PT. The PT said to avoid rounding my back at all for a while to heal and only do the specific exersises to help the pain centralise in my back near the actual problem. I'm about done with the PT, and then I'll try easing into activity again.

    For you amature PT's out there I'm on the Mckenzie protcol - and it works as far as those things go. It designed to push the disk back in place like a good chiro would but it's more effective. Detailed info: http://www.rehabpub.com/features/102002/6.asp

    And I'll look into those DL bands. My squat has always sucked, but I'd *just* bought a new pair of 45s to finally hit a 400lb DL PR before the pain started up again.


    I appreciate all the info and stuff guys. Thank you all.

    I was really hoping for more bjj specific info like from cyrijl (thanks again man. awesome info.) and S.G. which is why i posted in DHS. I'm well aware that any type of hard physical activity is contrary to doc's orders and "not good", but I'm not ready to give up movement and sit on my ass playing WoW just yet.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
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