As we both know Simon, talk is cheap. And truth is in action, lest we become another pimply faced "expert" sitting behind a CRT and talking ****. (my personal definition of a "karate ****")
Where are you located? Let's get you in a FAST course. If it doesn't meet your high standards I will personally refund your money.
Or if you are in the Bay area, give me a call today and attend a class tonight or tomorrow. My cell is 720-256-3898.
Gotta run and catch a plane.
Originally Posted by Billkipp
Thanks Bill, I like to contribute to these forums because they have the potential to inform people but your point about the grounds of the debate is ultimatly truthful and relevent. I am in San Francisco, my user name is my real name dsimon=darrell simon.... I don't know if this allows me the privalege of saying that at least in some ways I don't fit the definition of a karate **** haha. And long ago I shed the pimples.... At 44 years of age, my boys are not at the pimple age yet either.
let me also say there may be envy involved.... you are flying to San Deigo for your training dammit!!! I am flying down to Philadelphia this weekend for mine, I think I would take a sunny beach over the misrable cold where I am going... Let me propose the following and you can think about this;
1) Regarding my high standard of discourse: I only have one. If I respect somoene enough I will call BS on something that I see, something I seldom do. So make no mistake about it I respect your community enough and that is why I respond to your comment about other arts... remember I am an advocate with that caveate.
2) I would love to take you up on your offer in the following way: If we could devise an experiment to test exactly how a traditional approach is affected versus the coaching that you provide. Then we could post the results to the board so everyone could see the data.
I will gladly put my own ideas and body into the fire for the sake of meanngful information, but never for the sake of any personal challenges. I am not a bad ass and don't want or claim to be.. But I am a man of science and believe in the power of research and data to support a conclusion.
If you want to devise an experiment with me to test the effectiveness of an approach, I will gladly work with you (not antagonistically) and together maybe we can provide some rsearch that will help everybody in the community.
Let me know if you have an interest and we can work something out.
This little bit interests me, can you elaborate? ...like how in hell are 'martial arts' an expression of how to fight most efficiently? Or do you have a certain 'martial art' in mind which fits the bill, discounting the other 'martial arts' which are miles away from efficient fighting?
Originally Posted by Dsimon3387
Intrestingly enough, I recognize the school where most of those clips were filmed.
It belongs to this guy: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13483, who seems to have taken Bill's material and used it to market his own self defense tapes.
On the plus side, at least the FAST training is adding an element of aliveness to some traditional Krotty schools.
When you make a sauce as a chef you do it differently than somoene who wants to cook something fancy at home A chef looks at a sauce and says "oh this is an emulsion and these are the principles to be applied to make this sauce properly." The chef does this because he is a professional who has been taught the most efficient way to make different sauces. Now some people may be great cooks, they may make a great sauce, but they are not concerned with efficiency, or cost of ingrediants, etc. This is analogous to the a professional applying martial arts that were developed for combat.
Originally Posted by Dirty Rooster
People have always had a need to fight. Some people without any training are naturally good fighters, some people are not. People who had/have to fight regularly, professionally, or militarily are going to be concerned with the most efficient way of fighting. Martial Arts that were designed during periods of combat were not designed for any other purpose than how to kill maime and use self defense most effectively. They were designed by people who had to control their fears psychologically, had to deal with adrenaline, like the rest of us.
I am not talking about martial art that were not designed during times of combat, i am referring to arts that were designed and used to fight. For example, Aikido was not designed for combat, but AikiJutsu was. Some karate systems were designed for fighting and some were not. When you see a knife technique in a Kali system, it was probably designed by somoene who, like everyone else had to deal with his adrenaline, his psychological baggage (fear, hesitation, etc) and other things that affect people when they are involved with combat.
My point in bringing this realization described above up, is that when somoene says "martial arts with all their fancy moves,etc" they are discounting the collective work of people who had combat experience and dealt with the realities of combat. You simply can't be taken seriously when you discount the expereince of professional fighters, soldgers, martial artists, etc who actually have experience and designed techniques based on this experience.
I understand that some martial arts were not designed in combat, but I am not referring to those arts. People in certain martial arts communities are very quick to dismiss arts that actually functioned in combat as irrelevant and that is ignorant.
Interesting discussion we are having here. As a woman and a martial artist I would like to add my 2 cents worth here. I think the part that you are missing is most of us can't train, or don't want to train, our martial arts the same way that it was developed. As a martial arts school owner I can't afford the insurance for people to come in and fight that way that martial arts were really meant to train in order for them to be really effect as a self defense approach. That being said most students don't want to put in the amount of time or the pain that really effective hard core training would take.
FAST defense has filled in the gaps in my training and helped me in ways that would help me defend myself. I also learned truths about myself the my martial arts training did not, I have faced some of my biggest fears in the courses I have taken. It has boosted my confidence in who I am and what I can do. This course if for the average person and for the talented martial artist. It can be done in 1/10th the time it would take a good martial artist to train to be able to handle many situations. There is a place for "fancy martial arts moves" but when it comes to life and death are you prepared to depend on those moves?
You are characterizing a couple of different things some fairly some with a real biase.
Originally Posted by MVMA01
The whole first part of your post makes a lot of sense. And in fact many martial artists enter different training situations to deal specifically with skill sets and methods. Even Peyton Quinn from what I remember showed some great applications for Sankyo from Akido. Maybe somebody could study Aikido to learn about circular movements for example. And yeah a lot of us who were raised a certain way could stand to learn about the nature and physiology of violence. Indeed these opportunities do fill in gaps and they make us better, stronger yada yada...
And yeah it is great that it worked for you specifically. As a women you may feel as though it would be material anyone would benefitt from as well, you are entitled to that judgement and so far i am with you 100%.
Then you blow it. You first attempt to speak for some proverbial community of "talented martial artists" whatever group that constitutes. And you revert to the hyperbolic language that seems to be a need for your community to validate your approach. There are in fact no such thing as fancy martial arts moves when it comes to applying martial arts in combat. Fancy martial arts moves are things that other people do... people who are 1) ignorant about the nature of conflict 2) Things that come out of arts that admit explicitly to not being focused on combat.
As a women how would you like it if I decided to speak for your group? Do I have that currency? can I tell you all about women and what they can and can't do when it comes to martial arts? since I am such a smart guy haha? Well as ridiculous as that would be... I know women martial artists who can fight, some who can't and everything in between.... it is equally ridiculous for any group to characterize martial artists in some general way that is misinformed. Thats what you do when you declare that people who practice combat related skills use fancy movements. The only people that use fancy movements are frauds who either pretend, or think they know about how to apply martial arts theory to practice.
The mantra of a MCDojo.
Originally Posted by MVMA01
There are a lot of great MMA, Muay Thai and BJJ Gyms, that train balls-to the-wall and have no problem with insurance.
PS I also am a dojo owner.
I have some questions for Mr. Kipp. And my name is Samuel Browning. We switch our screen names over for the Christmas season. Its one of our enduring Bullshido traditions along with the yearly election of a Bullshido Village Idiot. (Those would be Hannibal and Carbon)
Lets see. In the video we saw multiple people were using a front snap kick to the bulletman's head. In Model mugging circa 1991 I was taught this was a low percentage move in a real fight and when I tried it the Bulletman caught my foot and made me eat mat. Why are you now presumably teaching this technique in FAST?
Secondly the NAPMA, one of my favorite organizations, is selling a self defense module which it appears you created for them. Since I don't want to spend over $300 to buy it, I have not read it. But since Payton Quinn has said in his book that the Bullet Men are the heart of the adrenalin response training method, what quality of instruction is imparted if they are not part of this "dummed down" instruction.
Now if everyone who buys one of these booklets then hosts you and your instruction team please tell me, I will then reconsider my comments.
I have a bunch of other questions but lets go two or three at a time.
Originally Posted by shinbushi
The part of the post you are responding to is beyond my understanding. I just don't get how people can look at martial arts that way. People train the way they want to, instead of how the art dictates and it becomes the martial art's fault they can't fight? Or they would rather train unmartially in a martial art for some reason presumably?