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  1. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2007 3:02pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Thinking of Moving to 5x5 routine

    I have been thinking of modifying my routine in order to get more out of my time at the gym. I have read through alot of threads so I think I understand the basics, just want to make sure I am not missing anything glaringly important.


    I am currently 31yrs old, 5'10" ~165 down from 216 in April. So the routine has definitely helped to some degree. I still haven't hit the plateau, but now I feel like I can get a little more focued on my strength training (before I doubt I could lift very much)


    My current routine is: (3 x 10)

    Day A:
    Back (Lats) || Chin-up
    Brachialis || Preacher Curl
    Back (General) || Bent-over Row
    Calves (General) || Standing Calf Raise
    Deltoid (Side) || Upright Row/Lateral Raise
    Trapezius (Upper) || Shrug
    Brachioradialis || Reverse Curl
    Tibialis Anterior || Reverse Calf Raise
    Deltoid (Rear) || Rear Delt Row
    Biceps || Curl
    Wrist Flexors || Wrist Curl
    Wrist Extensors || Reverse Wrist Curl
    Calves (Soleus) || Seated Calf Raise
    Neck Extensors || Neck Flexion
    Neck Flexors || Neck Extension

    Day B
    Chest (General) || Chest Dip
    Chest (Upper) || Incline Bench Press
    Triceps || Triceps Extension
    Hamstrings || Hyperextensions
    Quadriceps || Full Squat
    Chest (General) || Bench Press
    Deltoid (Front) || Shoulder Press
    Triceps || Pushdown
    Hamstrings || SL Deadlift
    Quadriceps || Lunge
    Abdominal || 7Min Abs
    Obliques || Twist/Side Bend
    Hip Adductors || Hip Adduction
    Hip Abductors || Hip Adduction
    Hip Flexors || Hip Flexion

    I usually also do 30mins on the arc trainer after each session. I usually go 3~4 times a week. I have been reading alot on this forum and understand why this is not an ideal situation for someone training in MA. So.....

    I found this 5x5 routine online. It seems to have push/pull and legs.
    Monday:
    Olympic Squats: 5X5
    Bench Press: 5X5
    Barbell Rows: 5X5
    Accessory exercises: weighted sit-ups and a tricep exercise (note that these are not compound exercises and are done to simply round out the program. You do not need to follow the same 5X5 protocol as with the exercises stated above and should do 2-3 sets of 5-8 reps).


    Wednesday:
    Olympic or Front Squats: 5X5 - note that you can reduce the weight by 25% or so on this day if you are having difficulty with recovering.
    Military Press: 5X5
    Deadlifts: 5X5
    Pull-Ups: 5X5
    Accessory exercises: 2-3 sets of 5-8 reps of a bicep and abdominal exercise

    Friday:
    Olympic Squats: 5X5 (same weight as Monday)
    Bench Press: 5X5
    Barbell Row: 5X5
    Accessory exercises: 2-3 sets of 5-8 reps of a tricep and abdominal exercise

    I would still work in cardio and some hyperextensions in there. I would also probably do the squats with either a weight vest or holding a plate right now due to hand injuries. I would also probably change up the bench press sometimes for incline press or dips. Is that unreasonable?

    I also ordered Ross's books for more body weight exercise ideas. I need to read up more in HIIT and similar routines.

    I tried to search more for 5x5 for more details, but anything less that 4 letters long gets ignored.

    I am mainly looking to increase my strength. I plan on losing about 15 or so more lbs of fat and have that managed through diet and nutrition.

    So my first question is:
    1 - Is this a decent 5x5 start
    2 - Is there a good place to read up on 5x5? I googled and bookmarked a few sites, but referrals form people who do it are alot more helpful.

    Thanks.
    --Joseph
    Last edited by cyrijl; 11/19/2007 3:19pm at .
  2. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2007 3:47pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Holy **** thats a mean ass split dude.


    I would post about 5x5, but the best answer is to buy "Starting Strength 2nd edition". Seriously.

    Also this is a pretty good place to look over some 5x5 info: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...nts_thread.htm
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  3. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2007 4:17pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i couldn't find it on the site...i will look again. Thanks.


    --edited---
    I found the book and ordered it. That website was just what I was looking for thanks again.
    Last edited by cyrijl; 11/19/2007 4:30pm at .
  4. JabCrossHook is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2007 5:20pm


     Style: Kickboxing, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jesus christ, that's a lot of work you're currently doing with the 3x10. All those exercises... I'd overtrain within a week!

    Go with the 5x5 - you won't regret it! The golden rule with 5x5 or other strength/power based routines is to keep it SIMPLE.
  5. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 4:18pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a couple of questions regarding the 5x5 routine.

    Do I use the same weight for each set? Or should I pyramid up the weight for each set?

    I have seen both programs.
  6. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 5:01pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Congrats on ordering that book. it'll change the way you lift. I think if I move right a little there's still some room on his nutsack for you.


    Anyway - the One True Way, praise Rippetoe, PR's be upon him, is to use the same weight with each work set but pyramid up to it with warm-up sets.

    squat example #'s from my fanny:
    45x10x2, 95x5x2, 135x5x1, 175x3x1, 200x1x1, then 225x5x5.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  7. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 6:07pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anyone care to share the cohesive principles behind the efficacy of this?

    Maybe start with like....what's fundamentally special about the number 5?
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 8:10pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In theory, a 5RM sits right between the typical load that causes sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and increase in size (8-7RM to 12RM) and the loads that cause myofibrillar hypertrophy and subsequent gains in strenght and power (3RM to 1RM).

    It's been billed as a way to introduce people into powerlifting and as a way for people to break through plateaus (that is, for people who, up to that point, have only worked out with 8RMs for the main purpose of gaining size.)

    The program consists of doing 5x5 sets of compound movements (either whole body, or just in the areas where you want to progress or break a plateau) with larger-than-usual breaks in between (2-3 minutes).

    The program is usually run only for 4-5 weeks, and it calls to do increase the load every week (or every 3 workouts). Some programs introduce a tapper week; others just ask to keep increasing the weight. It also asks for plenty of rest (active rest), sleep, food and all the good **** needed to collect the fruits of your labor.

    A typical sample (full body) workout would look like this (not counting warm ups):

    bench press : 5 x 5
    squat : 5 x 5
    barbell rows : 5 x 5

    You start the first week, you increase the weight on the second week, you taper on the third week, and you increase the weight (over what was used on the second week) by the fourth week.

    At that point, you either go back to the world of bodybuilding lifting for 10 reps, or taper again and start over (and after a while start working with 3RMs and heavier).

    That's the gist of it.

    It doesn't have to be 5 reps. It can be 6, or 7. The whole theme is that if you have been lifting with 8-12 reps all the time, there will be a time where you will plateau since that rep range is not conductive for gaining strenght (for most).
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 9:03pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In case these are in order:

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    Day B
    Chest (General) || Chest Dip
    Chest (Upper) || Incline Bench Press
    Triceps || Triceps Extension
    Hamstrings || Hyperextensions
    Quadriceps || Full Squat
    Chest (General) || Bench Press
    Deltoid (Front) || Shoulder Press
    ... in general, it's recommend that you work the bigger muscles first, so doing triceps extensions before bench press is frowned upon. I know you're going to switch up your routine, so this is mainly a caution for the future.

    Also, I'd strongly recommend that you end your routine three days a week with 3-4 sets of low weight (3-5 lb), high rep (~20) rotator cuff exercises to pre-hab your shoulder depressors. They're inglorious work, but they'll keep the small stabilizer muscles in your shoulders healthy for years to come.

    Have fun and good training!
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  10. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 10:44pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for all the advice, that clears some things up quite a bit.

    Pirate,
    Thanks for the response about the sets, that makes sense. But that seems like I am doing about 12 sets. Is that correct?

    My previous routine did not hving me lifting to failure or to being sore. Since I never plateaued I wasn't too worried about increasing the amount of weight I was lifting. In addition I have seen great improvements in strength. From reading everyone's advice, however, I realized I wasn't being the most efficient in terms of time. Trying to fit in 4 days of lifting with cardio along side 4 days of MT/BJJ, well, it was starting to be a bit much. Despite how tough it may sound, i am not tough and I hate lifting, I just know it is something that needs to be done to get into shape and improve my fight game.

    This week I will work out my 1RM and my 5RM and next week start on the 5x5. I figured I would use the 3 base compound exercises 3days a week. And, I will add 3 auxillary exercises 3 days a week to round out the program.

    I was thinking of adding these (not sure on the day combinations):
    triceps, biceps, dips
    reverse calf raises, hyperextensions, lunges
    pullups,side delt rows,hip extensions

    I will just try to take macho's advice from another thread and do abs in the AM and HIIT cardio or the arc trainer after the weight session or on off days.

    I also have begun doing the exercise where you move the weight plate over your head in a circular motion and back. I think this is for the rotator cuffs. My judo instructor said he does this in order to strengthen his shoulders.

    Most of the 5x5 routines seemd to say just keep going until things plateau. But I won't worry about it until I have been doing in for a few weeks I guess.
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