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  1. RoninPimp is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/26/2007 1:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Geoff Tank Todd and the Todd Group

    He and his organization are a combatives training group. The best I can tell they have legitimate ties to the New Zealand military and the big dogs of WW2 combatives. If that is indeed the case then they wouldn't be bullshido so if this is the wrong forum please move mods.

    Does anyone here have more detailed info on them? I will be in NZ for Xmas (my wife is a Kiwi) and may contact them.

    I know there is some bad blood between the Todd Groupand Cestari's "Wolfpack". Is this a personalities or business type conflict? Or a curriculum disagreement? Any of the Wolfpack around that is willing to comment???

    Edited to add: After some further reading on Todd's website, specifiacally here; http://www.schoolofselfdefence.com/t...ose-combat.htm I find this quote; "Many specialist practices unknown by other qualified military unarmed combat instructors were revealed to Geoff by Colonel Rex Applegate to ensure his work continued."

    That sounds like bullshit for sure and certainly wouldn't go over well with the Wolfpack me thinks...
    Last edited by RoninPimp; 11/26/2007 3:42pm at .
      #1
  2. CLINT is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2007 5:11pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know there is some bad blood between the Todd Groupand Cestari's "Wolfpack". Is this a personalities or business type conflict? Or a curriculum disagreement? Any of the Wolfpack around that is willing to comment???
    The Wolkpack have a problem with anyone? NEVER......... lol

    I don't know Geoff Todd, and I never talked bad about him, thou their are guy's in our "Crew" that aren't as diplomatic as I. Todd and Carl were semi hooked up together cir. (1989-90). Carl had Todd in to HIS Dojo and there were several others who were invited and each, including Carl gave a round of instruction. Todd wrote an article after Carl passed away and it was supposed to be about Carl, but turned into ME, ME, ME, look at what I, I, I taught the Great Carl Cestari. Todd didn't teach Carl NOTHING.

    Before Carl hooked up with Brad Steiner, Geoff Todd, Roy Goldberg etc. Carl was already in the Military, Law Enforcement, a black-belt in Karate, Judo, Kempo & Jujutsu and his "Real World" experience.

    Ralph might HAVE more to add about this group and its history!

    C


    And our crew spent the day in 1997 with Applegate and he stated for the record that alot of guy's came to visit and take pictures, but Applegate was old and in a wheel chair, at the time. Applegate never taught them a damn thing and there AIN'T NO SECRETS! We do have more then one person who can confirm that Applegate stated, after seeing Carl's video's that Applegate said he was the best he ever seen and wanted to know who taught him and wanted Carl to do a video series on Kill or Get Killed for paladin Press. However Applegate passed and it never went down.

    Clint.
    Last edited by CLINT; 11/26/2007 5:21pm at .
      #2
  3. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/26/2007 6:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I visited Geoff Todd's school in Dunedin about ten years ago, saw some basic training and chatted with him. Don't know anything about combatives politics, but the school itself is amazing. Todd inherited it from his instructor who was one of the old-time Kiwi army combatives gurus and it's full of history.

    The training I saw, bearing in mind this was a long time ago, seemed like solid, basic H2H stuff.
      #3
  4. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2007 6:43pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Geoff Todd, was connected to Charles Nelson who taught WII combatives in the Tristate area.
      #4
  5. RoninPimp is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/26/2007 6:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Both Cestari and Todd were students of Nelson at one time or another. I'd imagine that's where some of the issues lie. Differeing views of history I'm guessing. The YouTube video I've seen of Nelson didn't impress me anyway.

    Todd's website does have a "me, me, me, me, me" type of feel to it. He seems to drop a lot of names too.

    I'm curious as to why he named it the "Todd Group" if he inherited the school from one of NZ's combative old timers.

    Its also odd to me that Todd is head of "The International Close Combat Instructors Association" which according to their website is exclusive to military trained close combat instructors, yet Todd has never been in the military.
      #5
  6. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/26/2007 8:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Todd was the #1 student of Harry Baldock, who was more-or-less the NZ answer to Fairbairn et al. Baldock was an old-time boxing and wrestling coach who had picked up some serious jujitsu along the way. His school in Dunedin was originally called the Baldock Institute and AFAIK it has been in the same location, a two or three level building, since the late 1920s. Baldock was one of (I think) three men primarily responsible for training NZ troops in close-combat during WWII.

    Geoff Todd inherited Baldock's school and (I think) Baldock's blessing to pass on his system as well, when Baldock retired (or died - can't recall the details on that). AFAIK Todd uses the "Todd Group" name to refer to all his businesses; I don't know what the actual school is called these days.
    Last edited by DdlR; 11/26/2007 8:24pm at .
      #6
  7. ralphg is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2007 8:59pm


     Style: JJ, CQB,FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    todd

    pimp, todd learned a form of martial arts called" combato" from harry baldock---this was taught to aussies and nz troops during ww2[ combato means "to combat judo"].baldock picked this up from aussie pt trainers. todd came to the u.s. around 1988-1990 and studied with charles nelson for several weeks. [pimp, what you see is a 75 year man on tape in charlie, believe me the guy could box, do judo, h2h etc]--carl was certified under charlie in 1976 [ a different system ], charlie changed his system from striking , throwing, choking to a joint locking system by the time geoff came around[because of age]. geoff was never in the military but was friends with a few guys who did teach inthe military. i think personally that geoff was a tough guy but hardly qualified to teach carl anything about combatives or judo [ carls judo instructor was the olympic coach yoneska , yoneska taught allan coage, mike swain and carl studied 40 years under him, yoneska was a police jiu jitsu instructor in tokyo as well] i will not speak bad of todd but suggest that you pick up a tape he put out on close combat from paladin press and see what he taught--then pick up a tape of carl's --then get back to me after you made up your own mind.after carl in combatives, i would suggest grover or kasper [ if you cannot train with clint or wolfpack] groups. pimp, if you are looking for mma, this is not what we do for sporting venues, we are into a great deal of weapons defenses, point shooting, military h2h, for mmas competition a mix of bjj, boxing, thai and sambo is your best bet---regards, ralph g
      #7
  8. ralphg is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2007 9:14pm


     Style: JJ, CQB,FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    ddlr

    ddlr, your user name means " defense dans la rue", you state that you learned[or took lessons] under todd[hence aussie, nz area] who are you certified under in ddlr because the man out there that is the source for that is a mate of mine [craig gemainer] . do you know him or study under him? also when you say your art is bartitsu , to my knowledge[ i have researched bartitsu for the last ten years] , there is no one certified to teach bartitsu [barton wright , it's creator had the last bartitsu school in 1902] so what lineage or license to you have to teach this? i am very curious [ i know some guys that are friends trying to recreate bartitsu like tony wolf or kirk lawson ] as no one can claim that have a rank in bartitsu, it is a dead art.can you identify yourself or tell us you rank in ddlr or bartitsu? i am very interested in your background----ralph grasso
      #8
  9. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/26/2007 9:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Ralph,

    I said that I visited Todd's school about ten years ago, watched a basic H2H class and chatted with him; that's it. I've never trained with him.

    I think that a quick private message will clear up the DdlR/Bartitsu side of things: PM en route.
      #9
  10. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/26/2007 9:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ralph,

    sorry, I forgot; this board doesn't allow private messaging until the recipient has made a certain number of posts, so I can't PM you yet. I'll send you an email instead.
      #10
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