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  1. ironfist666 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 9:10pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kempo, Kosho, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Why TMA don't work in the cage and how to train so they do

    One of the best known arguments in the MA world is whether or not traditional arts such as Kung fu, Karate, Aikido, etc are effective in the "real world" and whether they would do well in a cage match. Looking back at the early UFC's, we see some disgracfull performances by traditional martial artist. why is it these arts that served people for many a year know have deteriorated into arts that will cause the average person to get an ass whooping in the cage. Is it that sport martial arts have special techniques that traditional ones don't that make them better? In short No. Another common debate is whether it is the art, or fighter that matters in a fight. No. There are three reasons that traditional artist often get beaten in MMA competitions
    1.) lack of conditioning
    2.) lack of ground work
    3.) lack of sparring

    let us take a look at each of these reasons in turn

    1.) lack of conditioning-Many people start taking martial arts because they want to learn self defense. fair enough. They then go on to think that their techniques are so perfect they don't need to be in good physical condition. This hit me several weeks ago at a BJJ tournament. Befroe this i had only been to point fighting torunaments. There you get people of all sizes, and all different body stuctures. fat, thin, lanky, wirey etc, but you rarley had a person who looked to be in good shape. at the BJJ competition, all the people had one thing in common. every single one of them was jacked. Many Karateka/kung fu fighters/aikidoka etc believe that if their technique is good they do not need to be in good condition. This misconception stemmed from the american way of not wanting to put in the effort to become good. TMA have always had thier own way of conditioning, whether it be the Hojo Undo of japan or the Training of the shaolin monks.To be a good martial artist you need strength, endurance and flexability. These can come from many forms of traing. Calisthenics, running, heavybag work, jump rope, swimming, and sparring are all ways to get into shape

    2.) Lack of a ground game-Go to any MMA gym and you will see fighter proficient in all rea's. Striking and grappling. Go to 90% of the TMA dojos/kwoons out there and you will find people who may be good at striking, or standing grappling, but nothing else. Ask a TMA karatedoka what they will do if someomne tries to grapple with you and they will say "I wot let him grab me" many karateka thought that in the early UFC's. ask royce what happened to them. To be effective in the cage a fighter must have ground skills. sometimes this means going outside your art. As a karateka i have studied wrestling for take down defense, and BJJ for ground survival. Am i an expert ine tiehr area, No, but i know enough to stay on my feet and if i get taken down, survive to get on my feet. excellent groun arts include Judo, BJJ, Wrestling, Sambo, and indian wrestling. In short, to be a good TMA fighter, sometimes you need to go outside your art. No art is complete, some are just more complete than others

    3.) lastly is sparring. Many TMA fighter think that by doing Kata or forms, or prearranged randori, they will become prificient fighters. This is just not so. Once again, this misco nception comes from the average american being to lazy to get off their ass and train. Karate has always had sparring whether it be Ippon(one step kumite) to jissen(full contact) kumite. Kung fu also has a rich sparring history, both in sparring forms and in Lei Tai fights. Kickboxing, full contact karate, and sanshou are examples of how traditional arts have trained for fighting and suceed.

    Not all traditional arts have these 3 weeknesses. many, such as Kyokushin and judo stress aliveness and fitness, and often have a grappling game. These are the arts you should do if you want to do a TMA and still fight well. also, sanshou falls into tbhis catagory. Its very rare to find a TMA dojo that does all these things( mine is one of the few) so don't take the chance
  2. krazy kaju is offline
    krazy kaju's Avatar

    I'm not witty enough for this custom title.

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 9:20pm


     Style: In Hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    :beatdead:

    ... and bad grammar...

    But you make some good points.

    However, conditioning, groundwork, and sparring aren't the three magic components to training MAs efficiently. If you're still chambering your punches during sparring, then it isn't good enough (or, in other words, you have to know actually effective techniques). If you're sparring under extremely limited areas of attack (think: WTF TKD) then that isn't good enough. If you point spar 100% of the time, then that isn't good enough. If you don't give your all during sparring, then that isn't good enough.

    Some schools might think that they have decent conditioning, groundwork, and sparring, when in reality their conditioning consists of a dozen push ups and some crappy sprints, their groundwork consists of kiddie-belt level jiu-jitsu, and their sparring consists of heavily padded extremely restricted rule-set light contact point sparring.

    You get it?

    Good job anyways.
  3. ironfist666 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 9:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kempo, Kosho, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    true, i probable should have included full contact sparring rather than just sparring. and yeah my grammer does suck. also, many TMA schools, mine included, do teach throwing a punch from a chambered position, but only ones with little fighting experiance spar with the hand chambered. this is more ment to be a training stance in which you develop ambidextrousness ess
  4. MaverickZ is offline

    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 9:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  5. EternalRage is offline
    EternalRage's Avatar

    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 10:07pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Welcome to Bullshido. Enjoy your trip into YMAS.
  6. ironfist666 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 10:11pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kempo, Kosho, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    huh???? YMAS???
  7. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 10:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    your martial art sucks.
  8. ironfist666 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 10:23pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kempo, Kosho, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ah lovely. just the creason i left myspace
  9. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 10:49pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Your martial art sucks" is the name of the forum we have for debating martial arts issues.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  10. ironfist666 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 10:52pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kempo, Kosho, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    oh i see
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