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  1. Gabrael is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 5:49am


     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Does MA really train to fight in real life?

    This is a kind of spin-off of my newbie thread which got quite in depth on the subject of light vs. hard contact for 'real life' applications.

    what my question is; does any martial art really train a person to fight in real life in modern times?

    statistically in England the time when you're most likely to engage in a fight is after closing time outside a pub.
    so where does the MA training fit in there?
    a person would have to train fighting a drunk guy who's saying you are looking at him in a particular way whilst possibly quite intoxicated yourself.

    also in all likelihood for MA training to work in real life a person would have to be facing another MArtist one on one while circling each other, guards up.

    training cannot quite get the hang of training to fight gangs. it has been known for people to 'line-up' to attack and then not resist.

    also most people find doubt in their abilities when faced with a child. get an 8 year old and ask them to beat you up. their limbs fly around so damn fast it impossible to do anything bar just bear hug them until they stop hammering their heels into your knees.


    surely a fight experienced in real life would most likely be when a person least expected it?
    so where's the constant vigilance training?
    there are stories from chinese legend where training for the first year involves the persons master hitting them on the head unexpectedly every day until they are perfectly aware of everything.
    i'm not suggesting that as a training method.

    ALSO
    who here expects to have to fight in real life?
    who has experienced it themselves?
    who believes that they have the skill to fight properly and why?

    and also...do we actually want to fight?
    is that why we started MA?

    hell i think i did if i'm to be honest.


    edit; btw i'm not saying anyone is crap or that 'your martial arts sucks' or we're all a bunch of deluded tossers ....(well maybe some) :wave:
    it's just a discussion so don't get all riled.
    :XXfridge:
    Last edited by Gabrael; 11/22/2007 6:20am at .
  2. Dinosaur AMP is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 6:06am


     Style: Sub Wrestling/boxing/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Gabrael, just a heads up, but I expect your going to get hammered by people for this thread.

    Yes I believe the goal of martial arts is to train you to REALLY fight, or at least survive a fight.

    No, I don't think that most martial arts train in a realistic enough manner to prepare someone for the above.

    If your training to really fight, you have to do it right. Full contact, high resistance, lots of sparring. Since you live in England and mention the pub as the most likely place to find trouble.. that means you have to be ready and on your guard at that time of night in those areas. Lots of bouncers goto training classes to familiarise themselves with being in those types of situations... where you have a guy or two in your face, people are stupid drunk, and you arn't sure how many of their buddies are around. You can't just goto a karate class in the mall, do some katas and point sparring, and expect that to be sufficient to help you through a situation like that.

    In answer to your "ALSO section". I expect to have to fight, reguarly, because I work as a bouncer and it's frequently part of the job. I've experienced it multiple times, and I've found my training in kick-boxing and submission wrestling, as well as some things I've picked up from earlier MA's I've done to be effective. I believe I can fight effectively because like I said, I've done it, I'm not martial arts master or anything, but I've tested myself under high resistance and in real situations enough that I am confident. I started MA training because I wanted to fight, and I still do... however it isn't the best or only way to resolve things. When I'm working I always try talking it out and reason first... but if they start it, I'm more then happy to finish it.
  3. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 6:08am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrael
    surely a fight experienced in real life would most likely be when a person least expected it?
    Sometimes, very rarely will someone just hit you completely out of the blue for no reason though. There are cues to watch out for, they posture, talk smack, or try to push you around as a prelude to actually fighting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrael
    so where's the constant vigilance training?
    It's called situational awareness and fucking common sense. If someone is talking smack, DON'T STAND WITHIN ARMS REACH! If they come to push you and try to make the confrontation physical, HIT THEM FIRST!

    Really, it's not rocket science. If you can safely walk away, then do just that, martial arts is supposed to help you with the actual fighting part, what comes before that is up to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrael
    there are stories from chinese legend where training for the first year involves the persons master hitting them on the head unexpectedly every day until they are perfectly aware of everything.
    I think this would just give you a headache, I don't see how this teaches anything useful.
  4. Gabrael is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 6:11am


     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hey i'm expecting to get hammered here :)
    but i'm not making this thread because i think martial arts sucks and it doesn't actually work, i'm just curious as to what people think an their experiences.
    usually questioning things like a persons fighting ability is enough to get them all fired up and defensive and thats kinda what i want, to see what everyone thinks.
  5. Gabrael is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 6:15am


     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    I think this would just give you a headache, I don't see how this teaches anything useful.
    its an exercise in being prepared for an attack at any moment.
    the student would be aware that at some random point in the day the master would sneak up and hit him so he would be constantly monitoring all sounds around him and being aware of his entire surroundings.

    personally i think its enough to give someone emotional problems but apparently it worked for him.:icon_scra
  6. praetorian01 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 6:27am


     Style: many; box,TKD,croty,BJJ..

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let me just throw this out there: there have been studies done on the effects of martial arts on just about anything and everything involving physical and mental health, blah, blah blah. People with MA training have been shown to less afraid of the threat of being attacked( whether it is delusional or not here) . FEAR- its a big thing in a scrap or attack, and maybe MA doesn't really give you that much, but the edge over some of your fear- even if YMAs :lol:. You take away some of the freeze like a bunny factor and mayhaps you have something.

    I like the ideas presented, as well, about what are you going to do- Talk or Hit the sucker. Spoken like a guy that has actually been in a fight or two. So true that is.
    As far as the ancient wisdom forn these old legends of masters whacking someone in the head or snatch a pebble form my hand..well. I tell my daughter stories at bedtime about the lockness monster:icon_cycl ... mediocre drama, doesn't mean its true nessisarily. ;)
    Last edited by praetorian01; 11/22/2007 6:30am at .
  7. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 6:28am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrael
    its an exercise in being prepared for an attack at any moment.
    the student would be aware that at some random point in the day the master would sneak up and hit him so he would be constantly monitoring all sounds around him and being aware of his entire surroundings.
    Yeah, but like I said, there are cues to violence. Unless you're being stalked by ninja and an attack really could come out of the blue at any moment then all this teaches you is to be completely paranoid.
  8. Bear1980 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 6:29am


     Style: VT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know what u mean even sparring does'nt really prepare you mentally for the situation, but it helps.

    Personally i think training has made me feel alot more confident that when a confrontation arises i'm gonna stay calm and deal with the situation.(in fact thats proven to be the case)

    Its hard to replicate the rush of Adrenaline/fear you get when you are actually jumped in the street but unless your going to deliberately get yourself into streetfights then you'll have to make do with alive training.
  9. Dinosaur AMP is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 6:36am


     Style: Sub Wrestling/boxing/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, Lu Tze is spot on with his comments. There are most definitely cues to look for that give away someones intention. Most of them are common sense and some of them you can only get from experience... but with enough training your chances of realizing someone is about to sucker punch you can only increase. That's probably the hardest part though... once you can make it through the initial part of the fight where homeboy just took a monster swing at you and your mind is going "oh ****, oh ****". If you've gotten through that part the rest is at least straight forward.
  10. Gabrael is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2007 4:33pm


     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    true the confidence is a major turning point but what about muggings or carjacking that sort of thing? if there is no warning then how does a person get into the 'fight' mindset without being constantly prepared to fight?

    also isn't the fact that no MA allows facial contact just perpetuating the habit of not hitting to the face?
    the most likely place a person will get hit in a street situation is in the face or solar plexus so how does MA prepare a person for that?
    i mean struggling through a bad winding is something that can be done but who can know that they will still be able to fight after a broken nose or a busted set of teeth?
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