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  1. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 6:39pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's precisely the double we used. Head planted in the stomach, hands around the knees, driving up and forward.
    Which makes sense, since the dude teaching it was a heavyweight.
  2. melk is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 6:45pm


     Style: *********

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I bet the dude teaching it was trained by Dan, or one of his students.
  3. Deadmeat is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 10:22pm


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    not sure how to embed Dailymotion clips - media tag doesn't seem to do it.

    Check this out:
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa4...ntal-takedowns

    it's long (over half an hour) but full of really great information. I got a lot out of it.
  4. wakinonioi is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2007 11:14pm


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by melk
    Your overall technique sounds a lot like Dan Gable's upper weight double. Because of the wide disparity in weight in the the upper two weight classes, Dan had a double that didn't require lifting the opponent. For instance when I wrestled Jr Olympics I weighed somehwere between 180-190 but the upper limit of my weight class was around 280. So the lift and dump was not always a possibility. There do seem to be some differences Dan wanted us to Bull our neck and basically plant the forehead halfway between the navel and solar plexus, and the hands on the backs of the knees. Thus not dropping so far, and driving forward and up at a 45. So it was more of a drive through. I have used the same double in Sambo, and with a decent scissor or a good scramble I can usually attain side control or a mount.

    Are you taking a drop step there (with the lead leg coming down to a knee), or are you talking about sort of a snatch double thing?
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  5. melk is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/12/2007 1:11am


     Style: *********

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wakinonioi
    Are you taking a drop step there (with the lead leg coming down to a knee), or are you talking about sort of a snatch double thing?
    It could be done either way. Typically depended on how big your opponent was. I typically took a drop step, mostly because I had the strength and speed to pull it off. A major aspect of this was to get in close, like within clinch/tie-up range. If you could convince the guy you were going to clinch with him all the better. Then as he is moving to defend that, drop and take the legs. On a side note I was never successfully sprawled on when using this technique.
  6. wakinonioi is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/12/2007 2:18am


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not surprised, as you would probably not have gotten the kind of penetration usually associated with being "sprawled on" in the event that shot didn't work out. I guess you had folks who sort of 'rode' your momentum back off the shot when they saw it coming or tied you up with an underhook or an overhook or wrist control on those occassions that the shot didn't work out?
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  7. melk is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/12/2007 4:21am


     Style: *********

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wakinonioi
    I'm not surprised, as you would probably not have gotten the kind of penetration usually associated with being "sprawled on" in the event that shot didn't work out. I guess you had folks who sort of 'rode' your momentum back off the shot when they saw it coming or tied you up with an underhook or an overhook or wrist control on those occassions that the shot didn't work out?
    No technique is indefensible, so yes there were plenty of times when the shot didn't work out, but from tie ups and wrist control I could also work take downs(especially at the Jr Olympic level where things don't get stopped for "potentially dangerous" anywhere near as often). The Gable approach was to have a very limited number of main attacks(5-8) that you drilled to the point where you could pretty much tell the guy, "I am going to do such and such to you now" and still be able to pull it off. Then to have 3-4 secondary attacks for the most likely counters to those attacks. Yes with this you had a very limited repetoire of actual attacks, especially as many of the defenses are the same. This lead to the ability to wrestle without needing to think about what you were doing so much as what you wanted to accomplish, and to look for weaknesses or holes in their defense that could be exploited, as the technics were so embedded in muscle memory. The man was a four time Olympic gold medal winner so his **** is solid.

    To give an idea of the effectiveness of this approach(not to say it is more so than other approaches). Years after I stopped Olympic style wrestling and was doing Sambo, during warm up one day I had a guy try to shoot a classic double on me while I was standing straight up doing an arm stretch(completely unprepared for a leg attack, hell I didn't expect any attack, I was stretching). He thought he would be funny. The muscle memory took over right away, and I cannot even remember exactly how it went down, but one second I am standing upright, the next I have sprawled on him, gotten a good underhood and wrist control, plus side control with him on his back. Now in Sambo I am not exactly winning right now, but in wrestling I am(in Olympic Freestyle the match is over).
  8. wakinonioi is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/12/2007 8:43am


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure, sticking to the basics is always a good idea, and I reckon most folks develop that kind of 'go to' set of skills out of necessity over time anyway.

    So where did you go on to do your college wrestling?
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  9. melk is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/12/2007 9:46am


     Style: *********

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wakinonioi
    So where did you go on to do your college wrestling?
    Yeah, thats the fucked up part. Suffered a blown out knee my senior year of HS. Despite wrestling with it and still doing well 20-4 overall for the season, because I wouldn't be 100% come the fall I lost my scholarships, including one to U of Iowa(Dan couldn't get it by the Atheletics director even though I would have been red-shirted anyway) and an appointment to the Naval Academy. Wound up going to Eastern University(because it was a state school and offered great academic scholarships) and being a walk on my Sophomore year. Did Ok but lacked great coaching and lacked good competition. We weren't an NCAA school, we were a PAC school, which essentially means that there were only 15(not all of which had teams) schools to compete with in our division plus a few bonus matches with Division I schools such as PennState. Technically I could have gotten into a good freestyle club during or post college and maybe actually have done something with wrestling, who knows, but for the most part I moved on in my MAs career. After 9years of wrestling and stagnating for the last 3 I had had enough.

    While in college I also fell in love with Sambo, helped start a club, and actually spent more time doing that, because I could get better coaching, and more opportunities to compete.
  10. wakinonioi is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/12/2007 5:08pm


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by melk
    Yeah, thats the fucked up part. Suffered a blown out knee my senior year of HS.


    Ah, that's too bad.
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