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  1. #11
    Das Moose's Avatar
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    Oh okay so basically it boils down to speed?

  2. #12
    ysc87's Avatar
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    speed, and the fact that with the way the knee-down takedown works, it's significantly harder to defend against. you have a little more leeway in defense against the drop n' shoot.

    you generally still have your feet on the ground with the drop-n'-shoot until you get taken down, so you still have some options if it's a bad shoot and you reacted fast enough, even if there is contact. with the knee-down, you're just dead weight. there's jack **** you can do until you've been slammed on the mat once you're lifted.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Das Reindeer
    Oh okay so basically it boils down to speed?
    That's maybe half of the equation (bad pun intended).

    Changing levels without dropping the knee can lead to poor technique if you don't already have solid form in the first place. You should continue to drop the knee to practice correct form until you can hit the single or double consistently while sparring with partners who are good at singles, doubles as well as a good sprawl. At some point, you'll streamline your shot to the point where the knee either barely touches or skims right above the ground/mat. This usually happens on its own, and isn't something you have to work on.

    If you don't learn to drop the knee initially and master the fundamentals of a good penetration step, chances are your form will suck and anybody with an average sprawl or better will be able to stuff your shoot.

  4. #14
    Das Moose's Avatar
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    Really great advice guys.

    Would you mind taking 30 seconds to look at this double I pulled off in a pankration tourney on saturday and give me some feedback? I'm aware of the whole "ask your coach n00b" thing but you should bear in mind we don't really have wrestling here, just BJJ clubs which do a bit of it. I'd really appreciate some input from experienced wrestlers.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcYV7ROvNSE

  5. #15
    jnp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Das Reindeer
    Really great advice guys.

    Would you mind taking 30 seconds to look at this double I pulled off in a pankration tourney on saturday and give me some feedback? I'm aware of the whole "ask your coach n00b" thing but you should bear in mind we don't really have wrestling here, just BJJ clubs which do a bit of it. I'd really appreciate some input from experienced wrestlers.
    I watched it. I don't have time to post a detailed critique right now, but go back and read the part of my post on the shoot. Pay attention in particular the part that describes the 'penetration step'.

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...08&postcount=2

    I should be able to give you a semi-detailed analysis tomorrow. I'm certainly not the only qualified wrestler on the site though.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Das Reindeer
    Oh okay so basically it boils down to speed?

    NO! It does not. If it boils down to anything, its set-up and commitment/finish.
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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Das Reindeer
    Really great advice guys.

    Would you mind taking 30 seconds to look at this double I pulled off in a pankration tourney on saturday and give me some feedback? I'm aware of the whole "ask your coach n00b" thing but you should bear in mind we don't really have wrestling here, just BJJ clubs which do a bit of it. I'd really appreciate some input from experienced wrestlers.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcYV7ROvNSE


    Ok, first of all you shot from about a mile away. If you are more than a comfortable arm reach away you should not be taking the shot. Also, when you were trying to finish you let your shoulders get way too far out ahead of your hips. You know physics, CG, base, like that?

    Fortunately, that dude seemed to have no idea or no interest in takedown defense...
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  8. #18
    Jadonblade's Avatar
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    In san da I found using a cross jab then double leg often helped close the gap and help set the shot up.

  9. #19
    Das Moose's Avatar
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    Okay, so far I'm mainly interpreting this as "shoot closer" - wakinonio said this outright and I assume this is what you're referring to when you said "read the bit about penetration steps" jnp?

    Thanks for the input so far, would appreciate the analysis you mentioned jnp.

  10. #20

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, look at your left arm while you are taking the shot. Its waaaay out to the side. You want to keep those elbows tight in to your side while shooting.
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