232763 Bullies, 3673 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 13
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Bahuyuddha is offline
    Bahuyuddha's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    787

    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 1:45am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Guys, apparently nutrition has an effect on training...

    I think I have been starving myself. Not literally, as my little spare tire around the middle can attest. But for the past several months I've pretty much hit a brick wall as far as endurance goes. I've made some progress, but I am usually gassed half way through an hour of Muay Thai training (it's the pad work that kills me), and the rest of the hour is spent panting and pulling teeth trying to push myself to get through it all (maybe I push myself too hard in the beginning...from the time I started training I almost always gas around the same point, half-way through class). I always make myself finish the class, but my technique gets sloppy and I don't feel like it's beneficial at that point.

    And then last weekend I totally pigged out. I mean pasta, sweet potatos, a lentil and sweet potato curry, salad, cookies, truffles, beer, wine, more cookies. Oh my god I was stuffed. But, when I trained today I felt like I had twice the energy as usual, and I didn't run out of steam. I think I'm going to write a book called the cookies and beer martial arts training diet.

    But seriously, I think I really need to look at my nutrition. I am vegetarian, and I used to be one of those strict vegan psychos. At least I gave that up a few years ago. But I still don't think I'm getting enough calories for my exercise regimen.

    My current diet consists of roughly:

    Breakfast
    - 8 oz. of grape nuts with soy milk, or one bagel with peanut butter or cream cheese.
    - 8 oz of orange juice or other fruit juics.
    - coffee

    Lunch
    - vegetable or vegetarian curry dish with rice, or sometimes a veggie burrito.

    Light snacks throughout the day
    - mixed nuts
    - chips

    Dinner
    - once or twice a week: veggie burrito (with cheese but no sour cream)
    - probably 3-4 days a week: chips (about 20 I guess) with salsa or hummus dip.

    After training
    - fruit shake with 20 grams of soy protein powder after training.
    - I am trying a goat milk protein powder: Goatein! I kid you not, that's what it's called.

    I am paranoid about stepping up the caloric intake too much because my day job involves sitting at a desk for over 8 hours.

    I did some searching here on Bullshido to see if it has come up, and my search turned up with one thread with "vegetarian" in the title. Anyhow, it had some good advice, but was mostly targetted towards bulking up. I don't want to bulk up too much, I just want to have enough energy to get through Muay Thai training 4-5 times a week.

    Any insights are welcome.
  2. feedback is offline
    feedback's Avatar

    UAAAH!

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    4,082

    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 2:38am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Breakfast: drop that fucking bagel, with cream cheese, your eating 500 kcal of simple carbs, you could be eating something that actually does you some good with those 500 kcal.
    Also, pour that orange juice violently into the sink. Orange juice, and all fruit juices, for that matter, are nothing but sugar. If you want the nutritional value of oranges, then eat one fresh. There is more sugar and kcal in a glass of orange juice than in a can of soda.

    For lunch, what kind of rice? Is it whole grain brown rice? If it isn't, it should be.

    Snacks- never ever eat chips as a snack. They will simply spike your insulin levels and make you hungrier.

    For dinner- mexican food is the most unhealthy food there is, straight up. The only thing close to healthy is a chicken or veggie fajita on whole wheat tortilla. Notice that there is no cheese in a fajita.
    Drop the chips like you just dropped that fucking bagel, there's no reason to waste kcal on something like that. Salsa has a lot of sodium so if that's an area of issue then avoid it.

    In summary, don't step up your kcal intake, just make better food choices. for example, whole grains, lean meats (chicken breasts), and enough fat to keep you full. Your diet is loaded with simple carbs right now and fat, you want it to be around 25-30% fat, 40% protein, and 30% or so complex carbohyrates.

    oh, and I almost forgot: take a multivitamin and some balanced omega 3's, you'll feel a difference
    Last edited by feedback; 11/20/2007 3:00am at .
    Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
  3. Bahuyuddha is offline
    Bahuyuddha's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    787

    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 4:29am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by feedback
    Breakfast: drop that fucking bagel, with cream cheese, your eating 500 kcal of simple carbs, you could be eating something that actually does you some good with those 500 kcal.
    Also, pour that orange juice violently into the sink. Orange juice, and all fruit juices, for that matter, are nothing but sugar. If you want the nutritional value of oranges, then eat one fresh. There is more sugar and kcal in a glass of orange juice than in a can of soda.

    For lunch, what kind of rice? Is it whole grain brown rice? If it isn't, it should be.

    Snacks- never ever eat chips as a snack. They will simply spike your insulin levels and make you hungrier.

    For dinner- mexican food is the most unhealthy food there is, straight up. The only thing close to healthy is a chicken or veggie fajita on whole wheat tortilla. Notice that there is no cheese in a fajita.
    Drop the chips like you just dropped that fucking bagel, there's no reason to waste kcal on something like that. Salsa has a lot of sodium so if that's an area of issue then avoid it.

    In summary, don't step up your kcal intake, just make better food choices. for example, whole grains, lean meats (chicken breasts), and enough fat to keep you full. Your diet is loaded with simple carbs right now and fat, you want it to be around 25-30% fat, 40% protein, and 30% or so complex carbohyrates.

    oh, and I almost forgot: take a multivitamin and some balanced omega 3's, you'll feel a difference
    Sweet! Thanks. I will take this into consideration.

    To answer some of your questions, I eat both whole-grain brown rice and white rice. I have to admit that my tone was deliberately a little bit flippant in the OP. I am aware that my diet needs some improvement. It's actually amazing that I'm not more overweight. The only thing that can explain it is perhaps the sheer small amount of the bad foods that I eat. Plus the fact that I'm not completely inactive. I appreciate the advice very much.
  4. rordogs is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    137

    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 5:40am


     Style: diet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    how often do you do muay thai?

    how often do you exercise when your not doing muay thai? (running, rope, etc)

    have you counted how many calories your eating at the moment?
  5. PirateJon is offline
    PirateJon's Avatar

    and good morning to you too

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    3,240

    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 8:26am

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is the $DEFAULT diet plan. Are you close to following it?

    http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...on/7habits.htm
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  6. cyrijl is offline
    cyrijl's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    3,796

    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 8:57am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, you need to make sure you eat enough...that was covered above. As far as gassing out, make sure you are relazed and well rested for class. Sleep is also important.

    I don't know if someone said it, but don't substitute a protein shake for poor eating habits.

    That beradi article is good, but i think it needs to be stressed that you have to make small changes which you can sustain. Then work towards your goal. I don't follow most of those habits, but i am trying. I try to eat more fruit and veggies, eat less bad carbs and fat.

    I would also add that you should track your food intake. Anthony and I use thedailyplate.com. I have been using it since April. Knowing what I eat allows me to make changes easier since I can track exactly what needs to stay and what needs to go.

    I hope some of this helps.
    Last edited by cyrijl; 11/20/2007 9:00am at .
  7. rw4th is offline
    rw4th's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,022

    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 11:11am


     Style: BJJ,MT,RBSD (on hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    Yes, you need to make sure you eat enough...that was covered above. As far as gassing out, make sure you are relazed and well rested for class. Sleep is also important.

    I don't know if someone said it, but don't substitute a protein shake for poor eating habits.

    That beradi article is good, but i think it needs to be stressed that you have to make small changes which you can sustain. Then work towards your goal. I don't follow most of those habits, but i am trying. I try to eat more fruit and veggies, eat less bad carbs and fat.

    I would also add that you should track your food intake. Anthony and I use thedailyplate.com. I have been using it since April. Knowing what I eat allows me to make changes easier since I can track exactly what needs to stay and what needs to go.

    I hope some of this helps.
    +1 on thedailyplate.com. I've been using it for a few weeks now and it's a great tool to help you get a grip of the crap you're stuffing into your body. Logging everything you eat and drink helps keep you honest and on track. Dailyplate also allows you to log your workouts everyday so you can see how many calories and how many you burned.
  8. juszczec is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Akron, Ohio
    Posts
    314

    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 11:21am


     Style: karate and jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How old are you, how tall are you and how much do you weigh?
    What is your build (stocky, muscular, skinny, something in between)?
    What kind of training do you do during the week other than the 4-5 MT sessions?
    How much sleep do you get?
    How much water do you drink?
    How old are you (ya don't have to be specific - 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's is fine)

    My current diet consists of roughly:

    Breakfast
    - 8 oz. of grape nuts with soy milk, or one bagel with peanut butter or cream cheese.
    - 8 oz of orange juice or other fruit juics.
    - coffee

    Lunch
    - vegetable or vegetarian curry dish with rice, or sometimes a veggie burrito.

    Light snacks throughout the day
    - mixed nuts
    - chips

    Dinner
    - once or twice a week: veggie burrito (with cheese but no sour cream)
    - probably 3-4 days a week: chips (about 20 I guess) with salsa or hummus dip.

    After training
    - fruit shake with 20 grams of soy protein powder after training.
    - I am trying a goat milk protein powder: Goatein!
    Now, I'm not a dietician. Everything I say is going to be from the experience of tweaking my diet myself.

    You seem light on the carbs. If you are doing any endurance type work, ya gotta have carbs. IMNSHO, it doesn't matter how you get them but you gotta get them.

    How about fat? You do need some. I used to thing it was something to studiously avoid - but my own experience has shown me otherwise.

    IMNSHO, lose the protein powder and each some meat or fish.

    If you are really concerned about getting enough vitamins/minerals start taking a multivitamin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bahuyuddha
    I think I have been starving myself. Not literally, as my little spare tire around the middle can attest. But for the past several months I've pretty much hit a brick wall as far as endurance goes. I've made some progress, but I am usually gassed half way through an hour of Muay Thai training (it's the pad work that kills me), and the rest of the hour is spent panting and pulling teeth trying to push myself to get through it all (maybe I push myself too hard in the beginning...from the time I started training I almost always gas around the same point, half-way through class). I always make myself finish the class, but my technique gets sloppy and I don't feel like it's beneficial at that point.
    How often do you do pad work? The kind of endurance needed for that is different than the endurance needed to run a mile. You may need to increase the number of times a week you do an anaerobic type workout like hitting the pads.

    And then last weekend I totally pigged out. I mean pasta, sweet potatos, a lentil and sweet potato curry, salad, cookies, truffles, beer, wine, more cookies. Oh my god I was stuffed. But, when I trained today I felt like I had twice the energy as usual, and I didn't run out of steam. I think I'm going to write a book called the cookies and beer martial arts training diet.
    At some point, the more calories you burn the more you have to ingest or you start having problems. Its easy to cut calories when you diet but you can get stuck in the "eat less, eat less" mindset and not start eating more when you really need to.

    I am vegetarian, and I used to be one of those strict vegan psychos. At least I gave that up a few years ago. But I still don't think I'm getting enough calories for my exercise regimen.
    I never was a strict anything - everything in moderation. I used to avoid red meat like the plague about 10 years ago, but I've included it in my diet and all is well.

    I am paranoid about stepping up the caloric intake too much because my day job involves sitting at a desk for over 8 hours.
    So increase it in little bits. If you find yourself gaining weight, then cut back a little. You are looking for the sweet spot - enough calories to burn off doing MT, but not enough that you don't burn them off and start storing them.

    BTW, I work a desk job too - I've done what I describe and my weight has never been an issue.

    Mark
  9. Bahuyuddha is offline
    Bahuyuddha's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    787

    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 1:32pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by juszczec
    How old are you, how tall are you and how much do you weigh?
    What is your build (stocky, muscular, skinny, something in between)?
    I am 34 years old, 5'8", 175 lbs., and my build is somewhere in-between. There's a pic of me from the SoCal TD last August here (I'm #5).

    Quote Originally Posted by jusczec
    What kind of training do you do during the week other than the 4-5 MT sessions?
    I run once a week, about 4 miles with about 800 ft. elevation change on trails. It's been harder to do this lately with the end of daylight saving time because the park I run at closes at dusk. I used to run there 2-3 times a week (on weekends, and after work on days when I don't train). I need to find a replacement for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by jusczec
    How much sleep do you get?
    I am sure I don't get enough sleep. I probably get 6 hours a night on good nights.

    Quote Originally Posted by jusczec
    How much water do you drink?
    I drink "lots of water." Don't know how to quantify that. I keep a water bottle at my desk and refill it all day long while working, drinking from it throughout the day. I suppose I could count how many times a day I refill it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jusczec
    How often do you do pad work? The kind of endurance needed for that is different than the endurance needed to run a mile. You may need to increase the number of times a week you do an anaerobic type workout like hitting the pads.
    I do pad work every time I train Muay Thai, so about 4-5 times a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by jusczec
    At some point, the more calories you burn the more you have to ingest or you start having problems. Its easy to cut calories when you diet but you can get stuck in the "eat less, eat less" mindset and not start eating more when you really need to.



    I never was a strict anything - everything in moderation. I used to avoid red meat like the plague about 10 years ago, but I've included it in my diet and all is well.



    So increase it in little bits. If you find yourself gaining weight, then cut back a little. You are looking for the sweet spot - enough calories to burn off doing MT, but not enough that you don't burn them off and start storing them.

    BTW, I work a desk job too - I've done what I describe and my weight has never been an issue.

    Mark
    Thanks, this is all really good advice. I chose to respond to Mark's message because it covered most of what the other responses were asking/suggesting. I appreciate all of your responses.

    Just one other thing... I am reading the Berardi article and I am pretty far off of the 7 effective habits. For one thing, I definitely need to get more fruit in my diet. I can see why some people need someone whose job it is to supervise their diet. It looks like a big undertaking, so I will start out with the suggestion of implementing it gradually and working towards it as a goal.

    Thanks much to all of you for your suggestions.
  10. juszczec is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Akron, Ohio
    Posts
    314

    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 3:01pm


     Style: karate and jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahuyuddha
    I am 34 years old, 5'8", 175 lbs., and my build is somewhere in-between. There's a pic of me from the SoCal TD last August
    Couldn't tell for sure based on the pic, but it looks like you are somewhere between the 2 body extremes. So, you aren't like a couple buddies of mine who's metabolisms are so fast they can eat round the clock and burn right thru it.

    Beware the metabolism slowing down. Mine slowed big time when I hit 30. It made it alot easier to gain weight without trying.

    I run once a week, about 4 miles with about 800 ft. elevation change on trails. It's been harder to do this lately with the end of daylight saving time because the park I run at closes at dusk. I used to run there 2-3 times a week (on weekends, and after work on days when I don't train). I need to find a replacement for this.
    This is alot of cardio and might be contributing to your gassing in the middle of pad work.

    My training schedule had one day bag work, one day sparring, two days drills/kata (yeah, kata. laugh it up). On two days I'd run and lift weights and I'd take one day off.

    BUT - I made sure I was running short distances (either 2 miles both running sessions or 3 miles one day and 1 mile the other). I tried to keep as close to a 6:30/mile pace as possible AND one running session was sprinting. The goal was for the running to more closely simulate the demands of sparring - ya don't go full blast 100% of the time when you are sparring, its brief periods of intense activity mixed with periods of less intense activity.

    I varied the intensity of the other sessions too - bagwork and sparring was intense, the drills/kata were less intense.

    I started doing that in 1990. FWIW, I've only changed it a bit. I've dropped the running and swim 3x a week now. I still have one sparring session per week, one heavy bag session but have dropped kata in favor of technique drills (striking and grappling) and shadow boxing. I mix in 4 days of weight training, but split them up between bicep/tricep, chest/shoulders and legs. I do abs as much as I can.

    I am sure I don't get enough sleep. I probably get 6 hours a night on good nights.
    I used to get by on that as well. I still can, but feel like hell when I do it. Lately I've started sleeping an extra 30-45 minutes in the morning and its made a world of difference. I can push the training sessions much harder than before.

    I drink "lots of water." Don't know how to quantify that. I keep a water bottle at my desk and refill it all day long while working, drinking from it throughout the day. I suppose I could count how many times a day I refill it.
    You are drinking water. That's all that matters.

    I do pad work every time I train Muay Thai, so about 4-5 times a week.
    I'd say ya need some less intense training days, more carbs and replace the long distance running with varying intensity shorter distances (think sprints)

    Just one other thing... I am reading the Berardi article and I am pretty far off of the 7 effective habits. For one thing, I definitely need to get more fruit in my diet. I can see why some people need someone whose job it is to supervise their diet. It looks like a big undertaking, so I will start out with the suggestion of implementing it gradually and working towards it as a goal.
    I've alway been unsure if they mean 3-5 servings of fruit AND 3-5 servings of vegetables or 3-5 servings or either fruits or vegetables. It seems like its a big job, but it ain't all that bad. I try to eat 4-6 little meals a day (remember that metabolism slowing down?) I alternate between a fruit/vegetable and a non fruit/non vegetable. I also drink fruit juice. Another bit of advice I got was to use fruit as a garnish for cereal (and load up on the fruit), order veggie pizzas, get sandwiches with extra tomato etc etc. I think Men's Health had an article with all kinds of tips on how to squeeze servings of fruits and vegetables in where you don't normally think you can.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.